Singer 29K60 Questions

[NativeCrafter]

I bought a singer 29K60 machine form a shop a while back, had it serviced, and was working fine for about a day or so. Now I cant get it to pick up the bobbin thread.... Any ideas? Also... Any ideas on what a machine like this might be worth?

[Wizcrafts]

I bought a singer 29K60 machine form a shop a while back, had it serviced, and was working fine for about a day or so. Now I cant get it to pick up the bobbin thread.... Any ideas? Also... Any ideas on what a machine like this might be worth?

The very first question I should ask is: are you rotating the hand wheel toward you from the top? The wheel, when attached to the back, rotates counterclockwise, when sewing. If you rotate it away from you, clockwise, the machine will not stitch!

Check the thread path and make sure that the thread feeds from the top area, around the little peg on top of the head, around the tension disks, out the disks and through the little looped wire, up to the front of the hole in the take-up lever, down the other side of it, then down the throat, through the little thread spring over the needle holder, down the hole to the needle, where it feeds from left to right. If the thread is does not feed from left to right, with the eye of the needle on the right, the machine will skip stitches.

Maybe the needle was replaced and incorrectly aligned. The eye should face dead right, with the long thread channel facing left. The needle should be a 29x3 or 29x4 system patcher needle and should be inserted as high up as it can go, then secured with the lower set screw. Possibly, the needle is simply to far to the left for the pickup point to take the loop off the needle. You can verify if this is happening by moving the needle up, then swinging the throat plate 90 degrees. With the cover plate off the bobbin area, move the hand wheel toward you from the top and watch as the bobbin shuttle backs up, then moves toward the descending needle. The sharp point should pass the eye of the needle just after the needle moves slightly up, then halts.This is where the loop is formed. If the needle is not close enough to the pickup point the stitches may skip. Fix this by loosening the upper screw on the needle holder and tapping the assembly from the left side, to move the needle assembly to the right, then fasten the screw back down.

Or, maybe the bobbin thread is not feeding through the bobbin tension spring. Make sure you load the bobbin so it feeds backwards to the thread loading slot and makes a sharp turn after going through the slot, then feeds under the bobbin tension spring, then through the tiny hole in the side of the bobbin case and out the other side.

I'll post some pictures showing the correct alignment of the thread and needle and timing of the bobbin, later on.

[Wizcrafts]

As promised, here are some pictures of the thread path, needle and bobbin of a long arm Singer patcher. These should help you to get ready to sew with one. Remember, if the hand wheel is on the back end of the machine, rotate it towards you from the top, counterclockwise. If the wheel is on the front of the body, rotate it clockwise, to the right.

[NativeCrafter]

Thanks for the pointers! After looking at the pictures I think I might have the bobbin in the shuttle backwards, so that is the first thing I will check. Thanks again!

[willyinky]

Mine is not picking up bobben any thing else i can try

[Wizcrafts]

Mine is not picking up bobben any thing else i can try

Make sure the needle is inserted with the scarf side to the right and the long ridge on the left. The eye faces due left-right and must be threaded from left to right.

The bobbin should go in with the thread feeding clockwise, through the slot in the case, firmly under the little spring (which should be adjusted for modicum of pressure on the thread), up through the hole in the bobbin case, through the thread hole in the bobbin case post (long arm models only), then out the hole in the throat plate.

Next item is the take-up lever and adjuster. You need to adjust the spring on the take-up lever just strong enough to pull the lever all the way up on the upstroke of the needle. Heavy thread makes it harder for the spring to lift the take-up lever. Therefore, the newer machines have a helped adjusted behind the take-up stud. You turn the spring loaded thumb nut clockwise to add lift, and vice verse. The additional take-up can also help when sewing thick or very dense leather.

Finally, there is a thin long spring with a paddle shape at the bottom, which fits inside the lower section of the needlebar, just above the needle mounting block. If this spring is missing, broken, or bent out of shape, the top thread flops around in the needlebar and this can cause skipped stitches.

[evandailey]

Make sure the needle is inserted with the scarf side to the right and the long ridge on the left. The eye faces due left-right and must be threaded from left to right.

The bobbin should go in with the thread feeding clockwise, through the slot in the case, firmly under the little spring (which should be adjusted for modicum of pressure on the thread), up through the hole in the bobbin case, through the thread hole in the bobbin case post (long arm models only), then out the hole in the throat plate.

Next item is the take-up lever and adjuster. You need to adjust the spring on the take-up lever just strong enough to pull the lever all the way up on the upstroke of the needle. Heavy thread makes it harder for the spring to lift the take-up lever. Therefore, the newer machines have a helped adjusted behind the take-up stud. You turn the spring loaded thumb nut clockwise to add lift, and vice verse. The additional take-up can also help when sewing thick or very dense leather.

Finally, there is a thin long spring with a paddle shape at the bottom, which fits inside the lower section of the needlebar, just above the needle mounting block. If this spring is missing, broken, or bent out of shape, the top thread flops around in the needlebar and this can cause skipped stitches.

I'm going to jump into this thread with an semi-related question so forgive me for the high-jack. What are these machines capable of and best suited for stitching wise? I have an opportunity to pick one up for $200 that needs a little work. I was just curious of the limitations a machine like this has. I am saving to get a 4000 class machine and don't want to make any side purchases that will just frustrate me in the end.

[Wizcrafts]

I'm going to jump into this thread with an semi-related question so forgive me for the high-jack. What are these machines capable of and best suited for stitching wise? I have an opportunity to pick one up for $200 that needs a little work. I was just curious of the limitations a machine like this has. I am saving to get a 4000 class machine and don't want to make any side purchases that will just frustrate me in the end.

A Singer 29-4 is made to patch shoe and boot uppers and sew patches onto vests. It can also be used to replace zippers on jackets and pants. Oter good uses include sewing Velcro onto bags and repairing tears in purses.

The sewing capacity of the Singer 29-4 is 1/4 inch under the foot. The practical thread handling capacity is #92, but #69 goes further.

The stitch length varies with the thickness being sewn and condition of the stitch length regulator system (inside the bottom of the head). At 6 ounces, you can expect to achieve no better than 5 to the inch. At 1/4" that drops to 6 or 7 to the inch. If the part that controls the stitch length is badly worn, which is typically the case for 100 year old patchers, the maximum stitch length drops to 8 or less, for light leather and 10 or worse at 1/4 inch. Some old patchers are so worn out that you may have to pull the leather through to get any stitch length at all.

Here is how to test the feed, to determine if the machine is shot: Lift the pressor foot lift lever, behind the head, or, rotate the wheel until the needle is down and the foot has lifted up. Take a hold of the pressor foot and see how far you can push or pull it, straight back or forward. Everything beyond 1/64" of free motion is that much less than the design maximum length. A brand new, or fully rebuilt stitch length regulator cam may not even have 1/64" free play (mine barely moves). I once bronze welded onto the worn regulator on one of my old patchers, then filed and polished the "puck" part, to the point of only the minimum clearance needed to rotate and activate the drive mechanism. This yielded a full 5 stitches to the inch, into 3/16" of veg-tan leather.

The "later" models of Singer patchers, with the larger bobbin, can easily sew with #138 thread, or 3 to 4 cord Irish linen.

Bottom line is; if the feed mechanism has very little free motion (fwd or bkwd) and the wheel turns freely and everything moves without any binding, and no springs or tensioners are missing, and the stitch length adjuster is in place above the foot, and the teeth aren't worn or ground off the foot, it is definitely worth $200, for the head alone. If you can get the machine, mounted on the cast iron base for $200, buy it anyway, then fix it up for a couple hundred more, or bronze weld the worn out parts.

[Wizcrafts]

I forgot to mention the needles used in the old 29-4 patchers. As I found on my last one, it didn't like the 29x system needles, preferring the 1138 straight stitch system. The most commonly used sizes will be #16 and #18 (100 and 110 metric). I sometimes use a #14 needle with standard garment weight cotton, or a #12 (metric 80) with monocord invisible thread. If I sew with #92 thread, I might use a #20 needle. For #138 thread, I use a #22 needle.

I always prefer leather point needles in a patcher. There is no point in stocking round points, as these machines are not normally used to sew cloth projects too often.

The availability of the system 29x4 leather point needles is diminishing, therefore, dealers sell series 135x16 as a replacement. They work in most type 29K patchers, but NOT usually in the pre K series (29-4, or earlier).

Although my 29K172 has a large bobbin and is capable of sewing with #138 thread, it is normally threaded with #69. I stock #69 thread in a wide variety of colors, on small "patcher" 1 ounce spools. These spools are not available in larger thread numbers. I also buy 4 ounce spools of #69, wherever the price is best. Number 69 thread lasts a long time in the large bobbins. Therefore, my most used needles are #16 and #18.

Edited August 14, 2011 by Wizcrafts

[evandailey]

I forgot to mention the needles used in the old 29-4 patchers. As I found on my last one, it didn't like the 29x system needles, preferring the 1138 straight stitch system. The most commonly used sizes will be #16 and #18 (100 and 110 metric). I sometimes use a #14 needle with standard garment weight cotton, or a #12 (metric 80) with monocord invisible thread. If I sew with #92 thread, I might use a #20 needle. For #138 thread, I use a #22 needle.

I always prefer leather point needles in a patcher. There is no point in stocking round points, as these machines are not normally used to sew cloth projects too often.

The availability of the system 29x4 leather point needles is diminishing, therefore, dealers sell series 135x16 as a replacement. They work in most type 29K patchers, but NOT usually in the pre K series (29-4, or earlier).

Although my 29K172 has a large bobbin and is capable of sewing with #138 thread, it is normally threaded with #69. I stock #69 thread in a wide variety of colors, on small "patcher" 1 ounce spools. These spools are not available in larger thread numbers. I also buy 4 ounce spools of #69, wherever the price is best. Number 69 thread lasts a long time in the large bobbins. Therefore, my most used needles are #16 and #18.

Well this reveals my ignorance because I didn't realize there was a difference between the 29K and others. This machine is a 29-4 with the cast iron treadle base from what I understand. I'm supposed to go see it tomorrow. It sounds like it is worth the $200, I'm just not sure I would have much use for it. I mainly do holsters but am wanting to get into making satchels and things. But most often I am going to be doing 2-3 layers of 5-8oz. Veg tan. I also don't know enough about thread sizes yet to know whether what you listed would be what I need. Most of what I've read says 277 thread for holsters which i presume is bigger than the #138?

Edited August 14, 2011 by evandailey

[Ferg]

Go to this site: http://www.thethreadexchange.com/miva/merchant.mv?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=TTE&Category_Code=nylon-thread-information

to get much information on thread. A must read for many sewing machine beginners.

ferg

Well this reveals my ignorance because I didn't realize there was a difference between the 29K and others. This machine is a 29-4 with the cast iron treadle base from what I understand. I'm supposed to go see it tomorrow. It sounds like it is worth the $200, I'm just not sure I would have much use for it. I mainly do holsters but am wanting to get into making satchels and things. But most often I am going to be doing 2-3 layers of 5-8oz. Veg tan. I also don't know enough about thread sizes yet to know whether what you listed would be what I need. Most of what I've read says 277 thread for holsters which i presume is bigger than the #138?

[Wizcrafts]

Well this reveals my ignorance because I didn't realize there was a difference between the 29K and others. This machine is a 29-4 with the cast iron treadle base from what I understand. I'm supposed to go see it tomorrow. It sounds like it is worth the $200, I'm just not sure I would have much use for it. I mainly do holsters but am wanting to get into making satchels and things. But most often I am going to be doing 2-3 layers of 5-8oz. Veg tan. I also don't know enough about thread sizes yet to know whether what you listed would be what I need. Most of what I've read says 277 thread for holsters which i presume is bigger than the #138?

The Singer 29-4 has a dime sized bobbin that holds a little bit of thread. That's why cobblers tend to thread them with #69 bonded nylon. It is thin thread that has 11 pounds test.

You won't be sewing any holsters on a 29-4. You will find uses for it down the road. It can sew up the snout. In fact, the sewing head rotates 360 degrees and the feed is performed entirely by the pressor foot.

You are correct about using #277 thread for sewing holsters. I use that size regularly. It has about 44 pounds test strength. By comparison, #138 thread has 22 pounds test. Physically, #138 is half the diameter of 277.

The machines that sew with #277 and larger thread do not do so well with thin leather or thinner threads, like #69. That's why most professional leather workers have more than one machine. I have three industrial machines right now. In the past I had up to a dozen. I use a long arm patcher for odd jobs, or jobs that need to be sewn up the snout. I have a heavy duty modified walking foot machine for medium duty sewing, up to 7/16 inch, with #138 to 207 thread, or less. Finally, I have a monster machine, built entirely in the USA, that makes 441 clones look like toys, which sews through pennies and wood, if necessary. It uses incomprehensibly large thread (8 to 10 cord linen, or, #554 bonded) if necessary. But, I have it loaded with #277, which it sews like melted butter. The bobbins are 2 1/2 inches in diameter and 3/4 inch wide. It is a true harness stitching machine.

[mistydawn]

Hi, could you tell me where a good place to take my newly aquired 29k60 to have it serviced in austin or san antonio, Tx That they would be knowledgeable about vintage sewing machines such as this one?

[anakim]

Hello:

I am new here and yesterday I stumbled upon Wizcraft's advice about 29k4s and the stitch length regulator problem. I am trying to get a 29k15 working and had been breaking my head, tearing it apart trying to re-adjust whatever I could to get the foot to go up and down and back and forward together. Thank you so much for this information.

I have a further question, that is, what parts would you recommend replacing to solve this problem? You mention stitch regulator (little bit that clamps around the foot bar), but I assume that it would be important to replace what is called "feed motion bell crank lever" in the manuals, and probably the "foot bar" that sits between the two parts of the crank lever. It looks like these two parts are responsible for the fwd backward motion. I could imagine that there are other parts that may need to be replaced too. Further question: you mention welding onto the "regulator". I don't understand. In a list of parts with associated pictures that I found on hensewfiles.com, it seems the regulator is just the tiny thing that clamps around the bar, and I don't see how fixing or replacing that would solve the problem, because it can already be clamped tightly around the parts that move back and forth (but please explain if I am wrong, because I am only a beginner).

Please pardon my many questions and I am really grateful for any advice!!

Ana Kim

[Anne Bonnys Locker]

Most people now use the alternative needle as Wiz said. There are however a couple of other names for them:

Leather DPX16, 135X16

Fabric DPX17, 135X17

[pcox]

My old 29-4 has skipped stitches when the work is feeding toward me ever since I've owned it (20 years). After reading this thread I got to thinking about it so I decided to try other needles I tried 135x17 several different sizes no help. It sewed good forward would also skip with work moving from right to left, but not left to right. Today I made a lexan needle plate so I could see exactly what was going on. For some reason the loop was being formed below the hook. I changed to a 135x7 needle, sews perfect in al directions. Tried size 16 with 69 thread great, 92 thread 19 needle good, 138 with a 23 good. I am readly gooing to enjoy useing this machine now. I use it to repair race horse boots and harness parts, and a few human shoes and boots.

Thanks Wiz and Darren B. your post got my mind working in a new direction. problem solved.

Wiz your post about brazing up the feed part was great I nickel plated the bell crank up put about .0015 on it now it will stitch 51/2 per inch on 6oz. Thanks again.

[anakim]

So if I have zero stitch length (the timing of the horizontal and vertical foot movements are nonsensical), then I need to fix or replace the bell crank lever and the ring slide bar? As I understand from various of the above posts, these two parts (the ring and the bit that moves around inside it) need to be tight enough or the foot doesn't move properly. Can somebody with mechanical understanding confirm this? I am unclear on whether these are the only two parts I'd need to order to make my machine work.

[Spider1956]

I have a 29K60. Great machine. Unfortunatley, I somehow broke the tab on the bobbin case. Can this tab be replaced or do I have to find an entire bobbin case? Will the 29K60 work without this tab?

[Wizcrafts]

So if I have zero stitch length (the timing of the horizontal and vertical foot movements are nonsensical), then I need to fix or replace the bell crank lever and the ring slide bar? As I understand from various of the above posts, these two parts (the ring and the bit that moves around inside it) need to be tight enough or the foot doesn't move properly. Can somebody with mechanical understanding confirm this? I am unclear on whether these are the only two parts I'd need to order to make my machine work.

In my case I brazed metal onto the puck end of the bell crank lever, then sanded and polished it for the best fit short of binding in the ring bar. The stitch length jumped from 7 or 8 per inch to 5 per inch, just from that one correction.

However, I have encountered some patchers that were improperly setup for foot lift during the pulling cycle. The foot needs to lift off the leather in order to move forward. Then, it must drop all the way down, onto the material and exert enough pressure to pull the work back the stitch length, as set by the sliding stitch regulator on the back of the foot bar.

[Anne Bonnys Locker]

The 29k33 and earlier have a flat spring that applies pressure to the presser foot and there is a slide block attached to this. Over time the slide block can wear down and reduce foot lift. I have seen a couple of machines where the owner thought the machine was faulty when all that was required was to move the slide block further to the rear in order to give more lift.

It is also a part that gets lost so I had to make some at times - mine are rather crude but do the job.

Edited to add: not necessarily relevant for anyone's problem here but a problem to watch out for.

Edited March 9, 2013 by Anne Bonnys Locker

[billymac814]

What tab are you talking about? Can you post a pic so we can see and answer your question. I thought at first you may be referring to the tension thing on the shuttle, if that's the case they can be replaced without replacing the shuttle.

I have a 29K60. Great machine. Unfortunatley, I somehow broke the tab on the bobbin case. Can this tab be replaced or do I have to find an entire bobbin case? Will the 29K60 work without this tab?

[Spider1956]

I have a 29K60. Great machine. Unfortunatley, I somehow broke the tab on the bobbin case. Can this tab be replaced or do I have to find an entire bobbin case? Will the 29K60 work without this tab?

^{I thought I posted a photo. It must be the tension tab on the shuttle. Where can I find one of these for sale?}

[Anne Bonnys Locker]

Ask Bob or any of the other dealers here. The tension spring is is still in production. I have them in stock so would be disappointed if the other dealers could not help!

[Spider1956]

Thank you. I will try to contact Bob.

[billymac814]

I would be very very surprised if Bob doesn't have them but in the event he doesn't let me know, I'm pretty sure I have a few spares laying around.