Building a ladies seat

[mulefool]

I can't think of a guy who HASN'T studied female anatomy since his youth!

[particle]

Ahh, the one class I got an 'A' in....

There is always swimsuits and/or really thin jogging shorts.

[JAM]

I think in my jeans will be close enough

[Tosch]

JAM, you might also want to look here: http://leatherworker.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=1952 and also want to follow the cross-reference you can find there. I would think you will find valuable information in the discussions there.

Tosch

Edited April 28, 2008 by Tosch

[grumpyguy]

I really like what I've heard tree and saddle makers say, "This is not rocket science." (While wiping coffee from my screen and keyboard, dang, it's going to be all sticky for a month.) I think we really should ask ourselves how close is close enough. Unless we plan on alot of "nude saddle time" jeans ON should be close enough. But I'll say this, woke me up this morning! If someone wants to take thier pants off for me to fit a saddle to thier behind, I think I'll join the horses in the different zip code thing, Bruce! LOL! Might save death by jealous, what is it now? Oh yeah, "significant other!" (For those of you outside the U.S. where you can still say things without fear of offense, it means, boyfriend, girlfriend, wife, husband, spouse... well you get the picture.) I can see it now, trying to explain, "What? I was just professionally fitting a client for a new saddle." My wife ain't buyin' and I'm certain I would be packin up my traps (stuff) on the wrong end of my favorite shotgun! LOL!

Hey though really, another option might be those "spandex bike shorts" I see people wear riding thier bikes along the road. (Probably less fun for those on the singles scene but safer for us married types.) That way everyones covered, literally! Ha,Ha!

[JAM]

Thanks, Tosch - your link helped. I started this entertaining thread to find out how a ladies' seat differed from a men's seat - where one narrowed it and so forth. "Just sit in it" doesn't help as much as you'd think. Had a great conversation with Rod Nikkel who explained quite a lot, about making the ground seat flat under my pin bones and then dropping off quickly, and building up the center between thighs to make it feel narrower and more stable to a woman's anatomy - which shouldn't affect the close contact much, just give me a narrower feel so I don't feel like I'm sitting on a beach ball. I've got a direction now. And this was fun - thanks guys!

[grumpyguy]

JAM what Rod told you is absolutly true. (It ought to be, he is a very experienced tree maker with years behind him, and we would do well to listen.) Men's seat areas are flat in comparision to womens which are more rounded. (That's kind of a Duh, everyone knows that thing for me to say.) The narrower bars with the quickly decending sides and the more pronounced higher rise in front of the seat do alot to stablize the rider. I of course being a man have found similar seats an advantage while riding rough and difficult country at breakneck speeds. (The cows and calves never do what you want, go where you want and whatever they do they do it fast.) It does not allow for the same "close contact" so popular and as defined by many of todays horsemen but many accomplished riders were more than successful in riding horses prior to the birth of that "new concept." (That is only my opinion. I think people get on a soap box regarding alot of issues and then get dogmatic about it, most good saddlemakers were making "close contact" or really well fitted saddles long before the "New Concept" was conceived and coined into a phrase. I've even seen a few old west coast saddle with the skirts cutout for the better and easier leg ques.) My wife has the same complaint sitting in most saddles. The instability problem has ruined riding for her and now she won't ride anymore. (Even some vehicle seats are the same for her.) Of interest to you would be the discussion about the "Lady Wade." There were a couple of saddle makers who seemed to really know what they were talking about ground seats and thier insight might be helpful as well.

It all comes down to this for the treemaker and saddlemaker, you must fit the saddle to the horse to avoid damage and injury, (Treemaker's main job) thus keeping riding somewhat safe for both horse and rider. Then you must fit the saddle to the rider to keep riding relatively pain free and fun. (Treemaker and saddlemakers job.) David's fitting as he describes, is a way to make sure the rider fits thier saddle and there is alot to be said for the thought put into that. The trick is for a craftsman to take the information gained from the casting and apply it correctly to the seat when constructing the saddle. I know many experienced and talented saddlemakers can make a great fitting saddle without the casting. Really in the end it is the client who must be pleased with an attractive and well fitted saddle how ever it is done.

Edited April 29, 2008 by grumpyguy

[Denise]

JAM,

Here is a link to another old thread on this subject. Hopefully it will give you more information to help you out.

http://leatherworker.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=1909

[JAM]

Thanks, Denise - this was exactly the sort of thing I was looking for.

[David Genadek]

I certainly agree that you shouldn't need to always do the but molds I haven't done one in years because the shape is set in my mind now. However, I would urge anyone getting started to go through the process. Once you get it done set it on a tree. Then go read that other thread and you will know who gets it and who doesn't. If your still a little fuzzy then read JRedding's post. "The only way to narrow a ground seat is to build upward" You will see this when you make the mold. You will also see that narrowing the bar does nothing but create dead airspace, My bars are almost 5"wide under the seat.

There is a common perception that getting your rear closer to the back creates close contact. I worked for years trying to set people right on the spine. I was building a lot riening saddles at the time and the rieners were telling me they wanted close contact and a nice deep seat. They kept telling me to get them closser to the spine. I got frustrated one day and built up under the strainer and to my surprise they sat in it and said Yessss. I've been doing it that way ever since. I didn't fully inderstand it until a I did the butt molds though.

Everyone is talking narrow here but the mold will show you that you need to think wide to narrow not just narrow. A womens seat needs to be wider in the rear or the shape will get between the seat bones and pry them apart. It feels to them like it is to wide but the problem is caused because it is too narrow. Seat bones are wider on females to allow for child birth. The hip socket is placed further back on the pelvis and the leg exits the body at more of a forward angle for the same reason. What that means to the ground work is that it needs to be wider in the back and then needs to narrow more quickly. Women need to ride with more bend to their leg than a man or they will wreck thier back.

Your sitting on all the answers you will ever need about ground word.

David Genadek