English Bridle Vs English Rein Leather

[Go2Tex]

Is there any real difference between bridle and rein leather, other than perhaps the thickness available?

Does it actually have a different tannage? Is the rein leather just more pliable?

And other than Siegel, does anyone know of another supplier of the true, english rein/bridle leather that might be less expensive? How about the best known alternative domestic product of bridle or rein leather?

[unicornleather]

If you mean brible butt and rein back then bridle butt tends to be that , just the butt and you have a usuable length of around 60-65" you can get around 5-6 bridles out of one half pair of butts or 10-12 for a pair of butts.

Rein back is mainly used for harness work where you'd need much longer driving reins of course, it can go upto 8 feet long or more!

I use rein back for extra long dog leads too or extra long buckled up billeted reins on large Hunters, Warmbloods and heavy horses that are under saddle.

Thickness of either should be between 3.5-5mm.

Harness back is longer and usually but not always a little thicker 5-6mm

It all depends where you buy from for the thickness, I believe you go by weight in the USA and not thickness?

We like to confuse the issue over here in the UK and traditionally we use inches in measuring the length of the leather and millimetres in measuring the thickness!

Butts and Backs are measured in pairs and shoulders are measured in square feet, told you, we like to confuse things over here!

Where are you getting your leather from at the moment and what prices are you paying?

I may be able to point you in a different direction for leather that is cheaper.

Oz

unicornleather.co.uk

saddlebid.com

Edited October 10, 2010 by unicornleather

[Go2Tex]

If you mean brible butt and rein back then bridle butt tends to be that , just the butt and you have a usuable length of around 60-65" you can get around 5-6 bridles out of one half pair of butts or 10-12 for a pair of butts.

Rein back is mainly used for harness work where you'd need much longer driving reins of course, it can go upto 8 feet long or more!

I use rein back for extra long dog leads too or extra long buckled up billeted reins on large Hunters, Warmbloods and heavy horses that are under saddle.

Thickness of either should be between 3.5-5mm.

Harness back is longer and usually but not always a little thicker 5-6mm

It all depends where you buy from for the thickness, I believe you go by weight in the USA and not thickness?

We like to confuse the issue over here in the UK and traditionally we use inches in measuring the length of the leather and millimetres in measuring the thickness!

Butts and Backs are measured in pairs and shoulders are measured in square feet, told you, we like to confuse things over here!

Where are you getting your leather from at the moment and what prices are you paying?

I may be able to point you in a different direction for leather that is cheaper.

Oz

unicornleather.co.uk

saddlebid.com

Thanks for the reply. Siegel Leather of California sells J & E Sedgwick English leathers and offers the rein and bridle in either butts or backs. Since I have not tried it myself, my question is mainly whether or not there is an actual, appreciable difference in the tannage of the two, and not just the cut or thickness. I gather from your answer that there is not.

I have on order a side of so-called "English" bridle leather from Weaver, but without any actual experience with the Sedgwick product, I'm wondering if anyone has tried both and could advise if the Sedgwick leather is worth more than double the cost. I suspect the price of the English leather is reflective of the drop in the value of the Dollar vs the Pound and the cost of importation and shipping.

Siegel currently prices their Rein back at $321.80 per 16-17 sq ft,(average). Butts are $275 per 11-12 sq ft average. Both are the same thickness, 4-4.5mm. (10-11 oz).

Their bridle backs and butts are 3.5-4mm.

[unicornleather]

Thanks for the reply. Siegel Leather of California sells J & E Sedgwick English leathers and offers the rein and bridle in either butts or backs. Since I have not tried it myself, my question is mainly whether or not there is an actual, appreciable difference in the tannage of the two, and not just the cut or thickness. I gather from your answer that there is not.

I have on order a side of so-called "English" bridle leather from Weaver, but without any actual experience with the Sedgwick product, I'm wondering if anyone has tried both and could advise if the Sedgwick leather is worth more than double the cost. I suspect the price of the English leather is reflective of the drop in the value of the Dollar vs the Pound and the cost of importation and shipping.

Siegel currently prices their Rein back at $321.80 per 16-17 sq ft,(average). Butts are $275 per 11-12 sq ft average. Both are the same thickness, 4-4.5mm. (10-11 oz).

Their bridle backs and butts are 3.5-4mm.

The tannage (veg) and finish is usually the same on the butt and back.

Sedgwicks leather is not bad, there's a few companies over here still making leather, the best here I think is Bakers in Devon, they are the only Oak Bark Tanned tannery left in England very expensive but beautiful leather!

The best leather we are taught, comes from the Aberdeen Angus cattle, it is slow to mature and allows the fibres of the hide to knit together better but with faster growing cattle the fibres tend to be "pappy" when made into leather and don't have the substance like the angus hide but we have to use what we can get!.

Oz

[Kevin]

I use both Weaver and Sedgwick, there is no comparison at all. I only use the Weaver's for halter repairs and since they've started using Cahin tannery, I've started getting big fleshy spots in the middle of backs, so it doesn't give you much good leather to work with.

Is the Sedgwick worth the difference? Depends on what you're doing. If you're working on or making English type tack, there's not much choice. The English tannage is much denser, so you can use a thinner piece and have the same strength.

I could go on and on, but I won't,

Kevin

Supposedly Wickett & Craig is trying to make something like Sedgwick's without the spew (I don't know why, spew is good). I also read they are going to try to reproduce some Scholz leather. Some of that was fantastic.

[celticleather]

I'm in the middle of making a batch of belts using a 6mm (about 15oz) natural butt that Baker's very kindly finished to my specification. I have to say that it's the best leather I've ever used . . . it's a pleasure to work with it!

[unicornleather]

Yes, it is good, I have a pair of stirrup butts in my workshop, nothing like it on the market anywhere else!

Oz

[Mace Roulette]

Most of you probably already know this, so I'm probably preaching to the choir.

However, regarding measuring leather thickness in the US, we "measure" leather thickness in weight...........in ounces Avoirdupois (hereinafter, "avdp").

One ounce leather is approximately 1/64" thick. The method of calculation is that one square foot of 1/64th inch thick leather weighs in (on a scale) at approximately one ounce (avdp).

So, if you have a piece of leather that is 3/16" thick, then that is 12/64" or 12-ounce leather

10-ounce leather is 5/32" thick

8-ounce leather is 1/8" thick

4-ounce leather is 1/16" thick.

And so on.

1 millimeter is 0.03936996 inch, or approximately 2.5 (2 1/2)-ounce leather.

1/64" = 0.015625 inch

1/16" = 0.0625 inch

1/8" = 0.125 inch

Anyway....just in case you didn't know and was wondering. AND ALSO, IF ANYONE'S MATH IS BETTER THAN MINE, PLEASE SOUND OFF.

Mace.....

Edited October 12, 2010 by Mace Roulette

[celticleather]

Just to confuse things even further, here in the UK we also measure leather thickness in irons. 1 iron = 1/48th".

Therefore 15oz = 6mm = 15/64th" = 11¼ irons.

[Go2Tex]

I guess I didn't make it clear what I am asking. Is there a difference between bridle leather and rein leather, other than the length and weight that it comes in? Or, is it primarily a marketing name pertaining to the usage, i.e. bridles vs. reins and all the same tannage? If Siegel carries both bridle and rein in both backs and butts, surely there must be some difference! If so, WHAT? Maybe I should just call them and ask. duh. Of course they'll say there is, but can you believe them? Do they even know for sure?

Thanks for the comparison of Weaver to Sedgwick. I guess I'll know soon enough if the Weaver bridle leather I ordered is going to work for me. If not, then I guess I'll spring for the Sedgwick and find out for myself. Price is sometimes indicative of quality and if they are asking that much it might just be because people are willing to pay for it. Their Cahin latigo is not bad but not great. The brown is a little limp and the color isn't very deep. The black is pretty nice though. Makes good strings and tie straps. The burgandy is not as good as their old premium. That's for sure. I suspect their bridle will be about the same. I'd try the Hermann Oak bridle but there's no quarantee of quality with them anymore either. It's all pretty much a crap shoot.

Wickett & Craig is also raising their prices, I suspect in response to the falling value of the Dollar since it's coming from Canada now. (thank you socialist government monetary policies and enviro-nazi EPA regulation). Maybe they should keep the spew and charge a little less. I'll look for the new product, though.

[tonyc1]

I guess I didn't make it clear what I am asking. Is there a difference between bridle leather and rein leather, other than the length and weight that it comes in? Or, is it primarily a marketing name pertaining to the usage, i.e. bridles vs. reins and all the same tannage? If Siegel carries both bridle and rein in both backs and butts, surely there must be some difference! If so, WHAT? Maybe I should just call them and ask. duh. Of course they'll say there is, but can you believe them? Do they even know for sure?

Thanks for the comparison of Weaver to Sedgwick. I guess I'll know soon enough if the Weaver bridle leather I ordered is going to work for me. If not, then I guess I'll spring for the Sedgwick and find out for myself. Price is sometimes indicative of quality and if they are asking that much it might just be because people are willing to pay for it. Their Cahin latigo is not bad but not great. The brown is a little limp and the color isn't very deep. The black is pretty nice though. Makes good strings and tie straps. The burgandy is not as good as their old premium. That's for sure. I suspect their bridle will be about the same. I'd try the Hermann Oak bridle but there's no quarantee of quality with them anymore either. It's all pretty much a crap shoot.

Wickett & Craig is also raising their prices, I suspect in response to the falling value of the Dollar since it's coming from Canada now. (thank you socialist government monetary policies and enviro-nazi EPA regulation). Maybe they should keep the spew and charge a little less. I'll look for the new product, though.

Backs are longer than Butts.

Tony.

[unicornleather]

Thought I answered your question.

Backs longer than butts tannage the same.

Oz

Backs are longer than Butts.

Tony.

[Go2Tex]

Backs are longer than Butts.

Tony.

Thanks for clearing that up.

[Go2Tex]

Thought I answered your question.

Backs longer than butts tannage the same.

Oz

The tannage is the same. OK. That's what I was asking. Good thing we don't speak different languages because we'd be here all day on this one.

[Kevin]

I ordered a pair of black butts today from Booth in Mass. tanned by Putnam in England, we'll see how they look soon. I have ordered stirrup butt directly from Baker in England and it was nice but it took a month or so just to get a reply from them, maybe he just overlooked an e-mail or something.

GB and US, two great countries separated by a common language.

Kevin

[Go2Tex]

I ordered a pair of black butts today from Booth in Mass. tanned by Putnam in England, we'll see how they look soon. I have ordered stirrup butt directly from Baker in England and it was nice but it took a month or so just to get a reply from them, maybe he just overlooked an e-mail or something.

GB and US, two great countries separated by a common language.

Kevin

A month to get a reply? So, how long did it take to get the leather??? I've never heard of Booth. How do their prices for their English leather compare with Siegel?

[Kevin]

I had never heard of Booth either, I met the salesman at a trade show in King of Prussia, PA. Oh, and Clayton is the tanner not Putnam. Pricewise, it was less than $350 for a pair of butts + shipping. The last I got from Seigel was almost $300 for one piece (not sure if it was a back or butt) and free shipping. I haven't seen the leather yet, so it might be apples and oranges, don't know, but Seigel didn't have backs or butts in black.

As for Baker, I think after the communications were through, it only took about two weeks to get the leather.

Kevin

[Go2Tex]

I had never heard of Booth either, I met the salesman at a trade show in King of Prussia, PA. Oh, and Clayton is the tanner not Putnam. Pricewise, it was less than $350 for a pair of butts + shipping. The last I got from Seigel was almost $300 for one piece (not sure if it was a back or butt) and free shipping. I haven't seen the leather yet, so it might be apples and oranges, don't know, but Seigel didn't have backs or butts in black.

As for Baker, I think after the communications were through, it only took about two weeks to get the leather.

Kevin

Hey, Thanks Kevin! That's great info. Please let me know how you like the leather from Booth. PM me if you'd like. I very much appreciate it. Chasing down a good source of leather is the hardest part of this business.

I checked out their website, ( http://www.boothandco.com/products.htm ), and the link to Clayton Street Tannery, Chesterfield, Derbyshire, ( http://www.claytonleather.com/saddlery.htm ). Looks promising.

Mucho gracias.

[Kevin]

Got the leather today. I have to say that it's not nearly as pretty as Sedgwick's. The back isn't finished as well and it is "greasier" on the surface. I probably won't get a chance to really use it for a couple weeks, but I will try to report when I do, or if I use it before then.

Kevin

[awharness]

Got the leather today. I have to say that it's not nearly as pretty as Sedgwick's. The back isn't finished as well and it is "greasier" on the surface. I probably won't get a chance to really use it for a couple weeks, but I will try to report when I do, or if I use it before then.

Kevin

I was going to go down and check out this guys leather! His warehouse is 10mins from my buddies barn and right down the road from a good seafood joint! Maybe next week!

Andrew