Gullet Width

[goldpony]

I received this image from the saddle maker. A few days later I received an email suggesting a 1" wool felt saddle pad and a link to CSI Pads. I did purchase a 1/2" hospital felt wither pad from Flint Saddlery. I tried that on top of my wool felt/sheepskin pad and over this a 1/4" Ultra ThinLine. These two pads I have always used on this young horse. It did not seem to make a difference in the alignment of the cinch. I am waiting to hear back from Darin to order a 36" mohair cinch. Any thoughts?

[goldpony]

Hi all! Spoke with Darin this morning. He looked over the saddle pics and conformation pics of my horse. The cinch will be ready in two weeks. If the saddle is also too wide (please see above), would a 1" 100% wool pad do the trick?

[goldpony]

Any ideas?

[Billy H]

Well Goldpony, If it were me I would cinch up that new saddle on that Fjord and start puttin some miles. Respectfully Billy

[jwwright]

Goldpony............I agree with who ever sent you that photo with the captions. No disrespect intended here at all................but ride your horse and that new saddle. JW

[goldpony]

Billy H & jwwright, I am riding the horse. I have ordered a longer cinch. This does not address that the saddle is tipping forward slightly. I tried a 1/2" hospital felt wither pad. If I went with just a 1" 100% wool felt pad, would this be better for the horse? I trail ride in an area with gradual and steep hills, there are also flatish areas. The footing is good. The cinches and saddle pads I used with his previous saddles (drop,double dee rigging) do not fit with his new custom made saddle. I will have to mail order the right type of pad, just as I have done for the mohair cinch. This horse is only five. He has an exceptional work attitude and I want to preserve this.

[JRedding]

Goldpony, Is it possible you're just plain trying too hard to get everything just right before that saddle is even broke in ? new saddles do take a considerable amount of miles before they settle in and you can really tell how well everything fits. It appears to be a well made saddle that you probably won't have any issues with once it's broke in. Do like JW and Billy suggested and just get on it and stay with it until the saddle and the saddlemaker have had a fair chance to make you happy.The only thing I could add to what JW and Billy already suggested is that the only thing worse than having a new saddle to break in is having new saddle pads, and putting the two together is almost certain to cause you greif . Break in new pads under an old saddle and a new saddle on top of old pads, use some old pads you've used before pad him up decent and just make sure it's enough you're up off his withers like it ought to be, cinch it up, and just ride it. It's great that you're being dilegent and are so responsible with your livestock and I surely don't want to insult in any way, and apoligize if I have but I've built and sold hundreds of saddles and seen folks do this before. Just relax, ride it and enjoy it, and it just might all work out.

JRedding

[goldpony]

JRedding, The saddlemaker told me (about a week ago) the gullet was a little too wide and suggested a 1" wool pad or one built-up in that area. The saddlemaker also stated that the 32" girth (the one that is digging into his shoulder muscle) was the right size. If the saddlemaker fitted the saddle on my horse (September 16th), why was I not told about the gullet being a little wide, advised about the appropriate sized cinch and the correct saddle pad thickness? I've had my custom made saddle (with a custom made tree) for a month now. I am using his old saddle pads (wool felt top with a sheepskin bottom total width 5/8" with a ThinLine pad 3/8". I have used these two pads together for over a year.) with the addition of a 1/2 hospital felt wither pad. I have had other custom made saddles for other horses. No insult taken. I need advice from experts - LeatherWorkers is the best!

[Tkleather1]

It looks to me as if the saddle could go a touch more forward onto the withers. With that and the new cinch I doubt like hell you will have too much more trouble. as far as the new pad goes I dont know I like the felt pads with the neoprene centers and the air holes cut out along the back bone. Sold by Cowboys choice. Just my opinions.

[bruce johnson]

Just using a 1" pad will not necessarily raise the front up and level the saddle. Because of the flatter bar angles behind and steeper angles in front, the tree will raise up relatively more behind and be even more downhill. If I was younger and geometry/trigonomtry was closer to the top of the brain cells, I could figure how much. It isn't raised up much more behind, but is some.

Some people favor shims and if they work for someone great. I am not sure I could really figure out where to put them and how much, and then not get an edge lump with some systems I have seen. You hear some anecdotal stuff about them concentrating forces more than dissapating force. The pad I have had the best luck with has been a wedge pad with a 3/4 tapering insert between the layers - fuller at the front and tapers to the back. Rick Ricotti developed them and Toklat is selling them under that name. They worked pretty well under my wider saddles for younger and narrower horses. They will raise the front some, less side to side roll, and not raise the back.

[goldpony]

Tkleather1 & Bruce. Thank you. I will look into the Ricotti pad.

[bruce johnson]

Here's kind of how it was explained to me, using some examples that might go to the exteme to illustrate the point.

If you have two mating/matching/"nesting" surfaces, it does in fact raise it up more in front due to the difference of the vertical angle going through a steeper angle in front vs. a flatter angle behind. The rub is in the top surface. if the gullet is too wide, and you add more padding you are getting closer but not to the point of raising the front at all. The flatter surface in the back is raising.

The analogy given to me was using a set of bowls as an example. Turn over two nesting bowls. If you stretch a sockhat over them, they will raise up more than the thickness of the sock because they are being lifted by the vertical component of the thickness of the sockhat at the angle where the bowls would touch.

Next, take a nesting set of bowls and for argument's sake, take one smaller and one two sizes up (or three sizes up to really illustrate the point). The smaller bowl is the horse, the larger bowl is a saddle with the width too wide. This would be the extreme example of the saddle resting on the withers and no bar contact. Stretch a sockhat over the smaller bowl and set the big bowl over it. It is still too wide/big for contact and the bowl is not raised. The only place it gets closer is at the top of the bowl. and to translate this to narrow horse - on top of the spine and not further out where the bar pads would be. (Another assumption at this point is that with most thick pads of 1" there is some sort of wither relief over the spine so there is no raising up there if the bar pads don't contact). As you add more padding (another sockhat) it begins to fill in starting at the top and eventually you get some contact further and further down the sides, which is now start to correspond to where the bars are making contact with the horse in real life. But in the meantime, most horses are flatter where the back bar pads are contacting, and that area has been raised everytime the padding has been added. Does this make sense?

[JRedding]

I'm glad you weren't insulted because I am enough for both of us now. "I need advice from experts" well pardon me all to hell lady. My twenty years in the saddle trade isn't much of a qualification compared to what you've got under your belt I now know. God bless the poor guy who made that saddle for you, he'll need it before he gets rid of you lady.

[goldpony]

I'm glad you weren't insulted because I am enough for both of us now. "I need advice from experts" well pardon me all to hell lady. My twenty years in the saddle trade isn't much of a qualification compared to what you've got under your belt I now know. God bless the poor guy who made that saddle for you, he'll need it before he gets rid of you lady.

JRedding, Oh dear! These were my exact words " I need advice from experts - LeatherWorkers is the best!" JRedding you are part of LeatherWorkers! YOU are part of the group I am seeking advice from, and I appreciate the time everyone has put into this post!

[goldpony]

Bruce,

I have order a 3/4 wool Ricotti pad. It will probably take at least a week before I receive it. Thank you for the suggestion.

[Billy H]

JRedding, your words of breaking in a saddle or saddle blanket are so true!

Regardless of how good the Saddle Maker,every new saddle needs a little bit of sweat and dust.

About 4 years ago I made a saddle for the best Cowboy that I ever new ( my Dad ), I have never seen a man so comfortable on horse back. Unfotunately he never was able to break the saddle in.

His horse of many many years had to be put down and health took both mind and body. After letting his ashes go to the wind I sat on his saddle trying to figure out what I should do with his saddle.

My dad would have said " saddle up boy! a saddle on a stand and not on a horse is a crying shame ". So I grab it off the stand, put it on top of a nice little mare. Well the saddle fit pretty good but not perfect.

The Shearling needed to be compressed, Skirts fit nice but needed some sweat to truly take shape of the horses back, fender and leathers have Twist and Wrap but needed some miles and sweat to truly take shape

to my boot and leg. I really worked hard on that Ground seat (turned out really nice), but after a month in the saddle----- man it sits really well.

I tend to be a wind bag sometimes, sorry guys!

JRedding words of giving a Maker a chance are so true, we put our hart and soul into these saddles, we want them to be injoyed for generations. Have a good weeked, regards Billy

[GrampaJoel]

Billy H

JRedding words of giving a Maker a chance are so true, we put our hart and soul into these saddles, we want them to be injoyed for generations. Have a good weeked,

regards Billy

Yep!

[goldpony]

Hi guys. I have been riding in my custom saddle for over a month now. I trail ride six days a week. I am hoping a longer cinch and the Ricotti pad will make a difference.

[Billy H]

Hi Goldpony, Hey I was not directing my story toward you, just relating a experience that I went through not to long ago.

I hope you get things worked out. Billy

[goldpony]

Billy, Me too - after spending US$4,000 for a custom made saddle.

[goldpony]

JRedding, I sent you a PM. In my post I was paying you a compliment!

[goldpony]

Just using a 1" pad will not necessarily raise the front up and level the saddle. Because of the flatter bar angles behind and steeper angles in front, the tree will raise up relatively more behind and be even more downhill. If I was younger and geometry/trigonomtry was closer to the top of the brain cells, I could figure how much. It isn't raised up much more behind, but is some.

Some people favor shims and if they work for someone great. I am not sure I could really figure out where to put them and how much, and then not get an edge lump with some systems I have seen. You hear some anecdotal stuff about them concentrating forces more than dissapating force. The pad I have had the best luck with has been a wedge pad with a 3/4 tapering insert between the layers - fuller at the front and tapers to the back. Rick Ricotti developed them and Toklat is selling them under that name. They worked pretty well under my wider saddles for younger and narrower horses. They will raise the front some, less side to side roll, and not raise the back.

Bruce, I just tried the Ricotti 3/4" Wool Pad. It did just what you said. Thanks so much for the recommendation! Cheri

[Ken Nelson]

Bruce,

I have order a 3/4 wool Ricotti pad. It will probably take at least a week before I receive it. Thank you for the suggestion.

Back in the day; When I was young and straight up cowboying, I had 1 saddle, a7 wide Chuck Shepard roper. I rode it for 7 or 8 years. I had a double wool blanket, an inch felt pad and a thick cutback pad. Depending what horse I was ridin, I used a combination of one or more of the blanket and pads. Roped big and small cattle by the hundreds outside in all kinds of landscapes. Often rode one horse for over 12 hours at a time and pushed them hard. Never sored a horse with that saddle and group of pads or raised a serious white spot on one. This saddle was on well over 150 head of horses, all types of horses. Used up several pads but always had just the 3 in use at one time. Ken

Edited November 3, 2010 by Ken Nelson