Pocket Holster Question

[steelhawk]

I'm making a pocket holster and am just about ready to put the finish on it. I have been using Satin Sheen for my other holsters, but am wondering if this is the right finish for a pocket one. Never having made one or used one before, I don't know if it should be stiff or soft.

[Rayban]

I finish them same way I do a regular holster. I would rather they be stiff to start out and will break down somewhat as time and usage goes on.

[ShortBBL]

I'd think stiff to start with is ok too, IF you pull it from the pocket a lot to break it in faster. Also, I am thinking deep FORMING is not too good an idea with pocket holsters. I made one for an LCP and it's not easy to get the gun out! But, mine does not have the nice "hook" piece as shown above... that should catch on the pocket and keep the holster inside while the gun pulls out. Mine turned out nice, but, not effective... so it's a show piece.... not for carry! I need to make a proper one now!

[Rayban]

I'd think stiff to start with is ok too, IF you pull it from the pocket a lot to break it in faster. Also, I am thinking deep FORMING is not too good an idea with pocket holsters. I made one for an LCP and it's not easy to get the gun out! But, mine does not have the nice "hook" piece as shown above... that should catch on the pocket and keep the holster inside while the gun pulls out. Mine turned out nice, but, not effective... so it's a show piece.... not for carry! I need to make a proper one now!

See that little tab I stitched in at the top of the holster? If you push down on that with your thumb while you grip the gun, you disengage the gun from the retention in the holster. Then the hook feature finishes the job. After a little practice, it's a quick fluid motion.

But I agree with you about deep forming, not a good idea, and not necessary.

Edited October 16, 2010 by Rayban

[steelhawk]

Thanks. I will finish it like my other holsters. Pictures will come later. I did get carried away with the forming, though, as I was using 6-7 oz leather and it was easier to get more detail in. I hope it doesn't affect function in the pocket. Deep down I knew I shouldn't, but I needed the practice.

[K-Man]

Actually you do want to mold the pocket holster the same way you do the IWB and OWB holsters. That means applying the same detailed molding. There have been numerous reports of the gun coming out of the pocket holster that is done with less than that.

[Rayban]

Hey K-man......so what if the gun comes out of the holster...it's still in your pocket.....a little funny there.....other than that, we'll just disagree on the detailed molding....

I guess too much molding isn't for me...there's only a couple spots on a semi-auto where there is retention, all the other lines and stuff serve no purpose cept make it look like molded plastic. Just MO.

[K-Man]

The instances I was referring to happened with the gun also coming out of the pocket.

The detailed molding puts more of the leather in direct contact with the gun, and that's where you get the retention from. The less there is essentially, the less retention the holster has on the gun. It is, in my opinion, better to have more than less. You can easily loosen it up if the customer desires, but we leave that up to them.

Edited October 16, 2010 by K-Man

[gregintenn]

I've been happy with this one so far. I agree that the same amount of retention for a conventional holster should be used on a pocket holster, but i have no research data or anything else to back my statement up. It is only my opinion. I finished mine just like any other holster.

[Rayban]

I've been happy with this one so far. I agree that the same amount of retention for a conventional holster should be used on a pocket holster, but i have no research data or anything else to back my statement up. It is only my opinion. I finished mine just like any other holster.

So in your case, (holster), no retention at all works good for you....good to know.

[K-Man]

Just an FYI - my comments and information is based on my research of pocket holsters made by the top custom holster makers in the industry, as well as my having made 3,000 - 4,000 pocket holsters in the last 7-8 years.

[TwinOaks]

K-Man, I remember when we had this conversation about 2 years ago.....

It's like a flashback.....I remember how I felt as I hammered away at the keyboard, telling you how wrong you were and how much I knew....ahhh, good times. Then, after about 20 failed holster attempts, I removed my foot from my mouth so I could see the leather, and started doing things the right way.

One of the great things about this forum is the opportunity for new members to get advice first hand from folks who've been in the business a LONG time.

Don't worry, K-man, your lessons haven't gone to waste.

Rayban, I'm sure we all have different ideas about how a holster should function, but for pocket carry I don't know anyone personally that wouldn't be concerned with a pistol getting loose in their pocket. #1, the holster failed. #2, the pistol isn't where it should be, #3, even with the exceedingly long trigger pull of the LCP/P3AT/P32, et. al., it could be very dangerous, even potentially deadly (femoral artery's proximity).

I argued holster design with K-man way back before the crash (otherwise I'd try to find my posts for reference) and as I progressed in holster building I found that just about everything he'd said was true. I have a hard time believing that he could be part of a rather successful holster company if his ideas on holster design weren't spot-on.

[TwinOaks]

Gregintenn and Steelhawk,

One little bit on the holster that I suggest looking at is the pointy parts of the holster. I realize those are probably to help grab the inside of the pants and assist in keeping the holster in the pocket, but smaller points of leather like that will most likely get folded/mashed/frayed/torn. Even with the addition of the stitching, there's not much body to support the little tab. In general, I try to keep a bit of a radius on all my corners to prolong the service life of the holster. I made a back pocket holster for a little 2 shot derringer with the sharper tabs like you have on that one. Within about 2 weeks, my customer (fortunately a nice fellow) brought it back with frayed and folded points. I remade the holster using a 1/2" radius on the tabs. I saw him today, and got a report on it. He wears it every day and it's held up just fine, still has the radius on the tabs, too. It's been 14 months since I made that one and while the leather is showing the results of being in a back pocket (rough-out is now a smooth-out) it's in good condition.

I do endorse the idea of keeping one face of the holster fairly flat. It helps to break up the outline of the pistol better. Carving it makes it look better. But on the back side of it (what will be against the leg) I try to mold closely enough to read the serial #. I'd also like to suggest keeping a pic of the holster, along with comments about it for review after using it. You may not have access to the same data / resources of K-man, but just keeping some notes about it will help you with your future designs.

[Rayban]

Twin...unlike yourself.....I'm not saying K-man is wrong, I'm just saying I disagree.

Big difference.

Rg

[gregintenn]

TwinOaks, You are correct about the pointy ears oon the top corners of my pocket holster. They are already beginning to look chewed up. They do serve their purpose, but I agree that a larger, more rounded shape would look better much longer.

[lws380]

I use Tan Kote for sealing my holsters. The reason is that R J Hedley told me to use it. I figured since he used it and made great holsters, why not me. It does make the holster a little hard, but it does loosen up a little with use. I've carried a back pocket holster for 5 years now (practically every day) and it works great and still has good retention. Here is a picture of a recent one:

[ShortBBL]

I use Tan Kote for sealing my holsters. The reason is that R J Hedley told me to use it. I figured since he used it and made great holsters, why not me. It does make the holster a little hard, but it does loosen up a little with use. I've carried a back pocket holster for 5 years now (practically every day) and it works great and still has good retention. Here is a picture of a recent one:

I really like the look of this one but my question is, how do you get the gun out if/when it's needed? I made one similar and the holster comes out with the gun... not too handy in an emergency! So... I need to figure a way to get the two pieces to seperate! Like I said... I like the looks a lot.... I just want the holster to stay put when the gun comes out.

[lws380]

I really like the look of this one but my question is, how do you get the gun out if/when it's needed? I made one similar and the holster comes out with the gun... not too handy in an emergency! So... I need to figure a way to get the two pieces to seperate! Like I said... I like the looks a lot.... I just want the holster to stay put when the gun comes out.

I don't get complaints that the holster comes out with the gun. There is some experience level on how much molding to do. To much and the holster will come out, to little molding and it will not have enough retention. The back panel (rough side) provides some friction in the pocket. Did you break in the holster? Mine are usually just a little tight when mailed, but they loosen with use and practice drawing. You can also wrap some saran wrap around the gun to loosen if needed, but you have to be careful not to over loosen at first as it will loosen with break in and use.

As shown the holster can be used front or back pocket. Panel removable by Chicago screws. For front pocket use the thumb push off works very well, with or without the panel.

[jrvinny]

Thought I'd put in my 2 cents here. I didn't put too much molding into mine so that it would draw smoothly and leave the holster in the pocket. I left it as flat as I could on the side that contacts the panel/pants pocket. There is still enough retention to keep it from coming out of the holster inadvertently. You can the holster and gun upside down and the gun stays put but it still draws like glass. It's a fine line on retention with a pocket holster though. Mine is a similar design to IWS380's but I used snaps for the back panel instead of chicago screws. It just makes it easier to take the panel off for front pocket carry. I made it a bit wider to keep it from shifting around in the back pocket. I was worried I made it too wide but the customer says it works great. I'm interested to see how the nub on the slide side holds up. Any critiques are welcome. Always trying to improve designs and functionality.

[lws380]

Thought I'd put in my 2 cents here. I didn't put too much molding into mine so that it would draw smoothly and leave the holster in the pocket. I left it as flat as I could on the side that contacts the panel/pants pocket. There is still enough retention to keep it from coming out of the holster inadvertently. You can the holster and gun upside down and the gun stays put but it still draws like glass. It's a fine line on retention with a pocket holster though. Mine is a similar design to IWS380's but I used snaps for the back panel instead of chicago screws. It just makes it easier to take the panel off for front pocket carry. I made it a bit wider to keep it from shifting around in the back pocket. I was worried I made it too wide but the customer says it works great. I'm interested to see how the nub on the slide side holds up. Any critiques are welcome. Always trying to improve designs and functionality.

jrvinny,

Nice work there! I've made holsters like yours with the snaps. I switched to Chicago screws for a couple of reasons. First, it is much easier to construct. Secondly,

I felt that the snaps are much more likely to fail compared to a Chicago screw. No real experience with that, but I just felt the Chicago screw design would hold up longer. Regarding easy removal of the panel, with Chicago screws you can use a penny or dime in your pocket to remove the screw head. You don't have to have a screw driver. If someone wanted to take the panel off several times per day, your design would work much better for easily removing the panel. However, I've found that most people use the holster in a particular way and don't take the panel off and on multiple times per day.

I had one question. Is there any reason you did not cover the trigger a little more?

[Deanimator]

I don't do any forming on mine. They're rectangular like a wallet to conceal the outline. I've had no retention problems in using one nearly every day for months.

[jrvinny]

Thanks for the compliment. I'm sure you're correct about the the screws being easier to install. I hate setting snaps. I knew this customer wanted to be able to carry in his front or back pocket and it would be different day to day. I didn't realize you could unscrew your model with a penny though. That's pretty handy. As for covering the trigger, I knew someone would point that out. I would have been disappointed if no one did! I've changed the pattern since I made this one so it covers the trigger completely. This example was my first pocket holster. I was going to remake this customer's holster but he decided it was sufficiently covered for him. I actually examined that aspect quite closely when the holster was finished and determined with the customer that since you should carry nothing else in the pocket you put your holster in, there's no way you could actually get your finger in front of the trigger while it's in the holster.

While on the subject of triggers, I looked at your website and noticed that you mold the shape of the trigger into your trigger guard section. Does that "bump" behind the trigger actually contact the trigger when holstering the gun?

jrvinny,

Nice work there! I've made holsters like yours with the snaps. I switched to Chicago screws for a couple of reasons. First, it is much easier to construct. Secondly,

I felt that the snaps are much more likely to fail compared to a Chicago screw. No real experience with that, but I just felt the Chicago screw design would hold up longer. Regarding easy removal of the panel, with Chicago screws you can use a penny or dime in your pocket to remove the screw head. You don't have to have a screw driver. If someone wanted to take the panel off several times per day, your design would work much better for easily removing the panel. However, I've found that most people use the holster in a particular way and don't take the panel off and on multiple times per day.

I had one question. Is there any reason you did not cover the trigger a little more?

[lws380]

Thanks for the compliment. I'm sure you're correct about the the screws being easier to install. I hate setting snaps. I knew this customer wanted to be able to carry in his front or back pocket and it would be different day to day. I didn't realize you could unscrew your model with a penny though. That's pretty handy. As for covering the trigger, I knew someone would point that out. I would have been disappointed if no one did! I've changed the pattern since I made this one so it covers the trigger completely. This example was my first pocket holster. I was going to remake this customer's holster but he decided it was sufficiently covered for him. I actually examined that aspect quite closely when the holster was finished and determined with the customer that since you should carry nothing else in the pocket you put your holster in, there's no way you could actually get your finger in front of the trigger while it's in the holster.

While on the subject of triggers, I looked at your website and noticed that you mold the shape of the trigger into your trigger guard section. Does that "bump" behind the trigger actually contact the trigger when holstering the gun?

The trigger guard kinda pushes that out of the way going in. Coming out it rubs a little, but from the back side of the trigger.

[ShortBBL]

Thought I'd put in my 2 cents here. I didn't put too much molding into mine so that it would draw smoothly and leave the holster in the pocket. I left it as flat as I could on the side that contacts the panel/pants pocket. There is still enough retention to keep it from coming out of the holster inadvertently. You can the holster and gun upside down and the gun stays put but it still draws like glass. It's a fine line on retention with a pocket holster though. Mine is a similar design to IWS380's but I used snaps for the back panel instead of chicago screws. It just makes it easier to take the panel off for front pocket carry. I made it a bit wider to keep it from shifting around in the back pocket. I was worried I made it too wide but the customer says it works great. I'm interested to see how the nub on the slide side holds up. Any critiques are welcome. Always trying to improve designs and functionality.

Very nice looking little rig right here!! Thanks for sharing.

I'll add mine to the fray tomorrow. I made two so far for the LCP... not sure I like either, but maybe try #2 isn't too bad!