Handcuff & Double Mag Holster

[Sixer]

I have a few friend in the Acadamy right now and a few have requested a holster that holds a set of handcuffs and two 1911 magazines.

I've worked up a few ideas on paper, but was interested to see if anyone might have any ideas or experience (specifically with handcuff holsters)

Any pics would be greatly appreciated! Thanks

[druid]

is it a "closed" or "Open" topped holster? Which does he want?

Where [on his belt] is he going to wear it? Front on hip or back of hip/kidney?

What model handcuffs are being inserted/retained? [yes, there's a difference in models].

Peerless are the "most common" cuffs that are issued by departments, Hiatts would be next and ASP are very favorable to Officers who purchase their own.

Peerless are more compact than Hiatts, the Hiatts have a wider "arc" for the double bar for slightly bigger wrists. The ASP cuffs are twice as thick because the double bars are coated with plastic/delrin.

These are things to know before building a multi-task holster.

Then once you have that info, I've seen models with a magazine on each side of the centered handcuff, then models with both magazines on either side of the handcuff. That's a "left/right-hand" thing for the Officer.

[Big O]

That's going to take up a LOT of belt space.

I think I'd consider "stacking" the magazines somehow to reduce that. Either have a split magazine compartment up front, with one mag on top of the other (belt-leather-mag-leather-mag-leather-air), or put them side by side, facing out. Either way, you're cutting the belt space for the magazines in half.

I carried a 1911 on duty for about 5 years. Used a 2X2 mag pouch.

[Lobo]

During my 24 years as a cop I received all sorts of requests for multiple pouches (dual mag pouches, combination mag & flashlight pouches, etc). These requests usually come from less experienced customers. The facts of the matter are that such accessories take up a lot of room on a belt, are considerably more difficult to conceal well, can be uncomfortable during extended use, and usually interfere with belt loops making them inconvenient to use. Most such accessories end up at the bottom of a drawer somewhere in short order.

For my personal use I prefer to use two single mag pouches, allowing placement wherever convenient on the belt and far easier to keep concealed. I never used a handcuff case while in plainclothes.

You might be doing your friend and the others a favor by visiting with them about these things. The younger officers are frequently more interested in how something looks rather than how it might work. I call it the "tacti-cool" attitude, and it frequently results in spending a lot of money on things that do not work very well.

One thing is for certain, and that is the fact that when your customer discards his new "wonder pouch" he will always believe that it was your poor design or execution that caused the problem, not his bad idea.

Just like holster design, everything involves compromises among the four basic factors of comfort, accessibility, security, and concealability.

Best regards.

[katsass]

During my 24 years as a cop I received all sorts of requests for multiple pouches (dual mag pouches, combination mag & flashlight pouches, etc). These requests usually come from less experienced customers. The facts of the matter are that such accessories take up a lot of room on a belt, are considerably more difficult to conceal well, can be uncomfortable during extended use, and usually interfere with belt loops making them inconvenient to use. Most such accessories end up at the bottom of a drawer somewhere in short order.

For my personal use I prefer to use two single mag pouches, allowing placement wherever convenient on the belt and far easier to keep concealed. I never used a handcuff case while in plainclothes.

You might be doing your friend and the others a favor by visiting with them about these things. The younger officers are frequently more interested in how something looks rather than how it might work. I call it the "tacti-cool" attitude, and it frequently results in spending a lot of money on things that do not work very well.

One thing is for certain, and that is the fact that when your customer discards his new "wonder pouch" he will always believe that it was your poor design or execution that caused the problem, not his bad idea.

Just like holster design, everything involves compromises among the four basic factors of comfort, accessibility, security, and concealability.

Best regards.

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FWIW: I totally concur with Lobo on this. In my experience, younger LEOs seem to fall in love with every gimmick that comes down the pike, or that they can dream up. They also seem to think that every time they hit the bricks, they need to be armed as though they are heading out on recon from the 'plantation' in Nam. The max cuff carrier I ever used off duty was a wide strap, similar to a Sam Browne 'keeper', to hold a single set of cuffs in the middle of the back of my belt. That even got to be too much, I just stuck one cuff inside my belt most of the time. Even a belt clipped badge holder got to be a pain in the butt. As to a double mag carrier, never have used one myself, except in uniform. You just are not going to end up in a full blown firefight, and if you do....you ain't gonna handle that with damned handgun. JMHO, and that, from a sometimes grumpy old retired cop. Mike

Edited October 17, 2010 by katsass

[Sixer]

Excellent point on the size and comfort factors...

While working on a pattern for this project I kept thinking "man, I would never wear this!" Too much leather and to big to be really usefull. Thanks for the suggestions, I will definitely talk to him again about the design. I'm thinking we'll give the handcuff + single mag pouch a try and see how that turns out

[Tac]

Like Lobo and Mike (Katsass), I have 20+ years carrying a badge and a gun and I make the vast majority of my holsters for cops. I like the ability to arrange my belt gear where I need it, rather than how the maker of the gear thinks it should be positioned. As a result, i make individual clip on belt accessories, such as mag pouches and handcuff cases. Some folks carry thier handcuffs behind thier gun, others on thier off-side. Mag pounches should always be worn on the off-side (IMHO). With them being seperate and able to be placed where you want/need them, they are more likely to be comfortable and actually carried and available when needed.

I usually do carry a set of restraints or cuffs with me (or have then available close at hand) anytime I am armed (anytime I am outside my home). When working in plain clothes, I always have access to handcuffs. We handcuff a lot more people than we shoot....

Anyway, enough about my rant... I will try and attach a pic of the cuff case I make...

-Tac

[Leather Monkey]

Reviving an old thread... Just wondering for those more experienced, what your thoughts on the mag pouches and how big you like them for retention vs removing them with ease? I assume the pouch will loosen somewhat once the leather wears in a bit and the picture shown above seem like it goes about half way up the mag? Would you suggest a longer pouch? Is this not a problem?

Edited June 22, 2011 by Leather Monkey

[Lobo]

Reviving an old thread... Just wondering for those more experienced, what your thoughts on the mag pouches and how big you like them for retention vs removing them with ease? I assume the pouch will loosen somewhat once the leather wears in a bit and the picture shown above seem like it goes about half way up the mag? Would you suggest a longer pouch? Is this not a problem?

Because customers continue to request double magazine pouches I spent some time on designing one for minimum bulk, better concealability, and better comfort. I ended up with a very simple pattern, single piece cut in a "T" shape, assembled with a welt between the magazines that can be adjusted in thickness and width to accomodate different magazine sizes with the same pattern (one pattern for single-stack magazine, one pattern for double-stack magazines). The welt also serves to maintain sufficient space between the magazines to permit each one to be easily gripped and withdrawn. Two slots form a tunnel-style loop on the back side that requires only about 2" of belt space, so interference with belt loops is pretty much eliminated.

As the photos show, only about 1/2 the magazine length is contained within the pouch with this high ride design. When forming these there is considerable stretching of the leather, and that means quite a bit of contraction during the drying period. Retention is quite good for the intended purpose (off-duty, plainclothes, etc); for other applications I would suggest pouches with retention flaps or straps. It would not be difficult to expand the pattern to produce deeper pouches, accomodate wider belts, etc, and the rear panel could also be extended to include retention flaps over the top of the magazines.

As stated in my earlier post on this subject, my personal preference is for single magazine pouches which can be situated anywhere convenient on the belt, are much easier to conceal, and generally more comfortable during extended use. But customers keep asking for double pouches, so I have tried to come up with something that will do the job without feeling like a brick strapped to the belt.

There may be other compact double pouches that can be worn comfortably for hours on end, but I just haven't seen them. This appears to be about as compact and low-profile as a double pouch can get. Also, once I got the patterns worked out, along with sizes and shapes for the welts to accomodate several different magazines with each pattern, I can knock one of these out in about 15 minutes or so, plus finishing time, so profitability remains good at a modest price.

[Leather Monkey]

Lobo, I'm sorry I never replied to this! I thank you for your reply and the photographs. Your mag pouches look great but I think you're right. For plain clothes I'm thinking single mags would be better... with a regular belt it would probably feel very heavy compared to your duty belt. I'm just starting to work on some cuff ideas as well.