goldpony Report post Posted November 5, 2010 The person who made my saddle, C.E. Gessell of Black Horse Leatherworks & Saddlery, will not honor the warranty and refuses to take the saddle back for repair. There are a three long posts - Seat Jockey Wrinkles, Gullet Width, and ? Cinch Placement - that describe what the problems are. In addition the back cinch is too short, the left seat jockey is curling and now the slotted conchos are loose. I received the US$4,000 saddle in mid September. There is the standard six month warranty against defects in materials and workmanship. What can I do? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Steve Brewer Report post Posted November 5, 2010 Gold Pony,Is the gullet width what you ordered?Is the Rigging set at the position you ordered?The seat should be fixed but if you ordered this saddle with the gullet spread and the rigging placement as it is it will be you that need to get it changed at your expence.Just my opinion. Steve Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
goldpony Report post Posted November 5, 2010 Gold Pony,Is the gullet width what you ordered?Is the Rigging set at the position you ordered?The seat should be fixed but if you ordered this saddle with the gullet spread and the rigging placement as it is it will be you that need to get it changed at your expence.Just my opinion. Steve Hi Steve, The saddlemaker came out to measure the horse for a custom tree. I wanted 3-way drop rigging ( I had used this type before and it worked for this horse). The saddlemaker did not feel that was necessary and went with 7/8 rigging. I very much appreciate your opinion and thanks so much for responding. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AndyKnight Report post Posted November 6, 2010 Hi Steve, The saddlemaker came out to measure the horse for a custom tree. I wanted 3-way drop rigging ( I had used this type before and it worked for this horse). The saddlemaker did not feel that was necessary and went with 7/8 rigging. I very much appreciate your opinion and thanks so much for responding. That is a tough one, so much of saddle fit ...etc is subjective so in some respects it is hard to say what is defective or not. (seat jockeys) Obviously what they consider ok materials is not the same as some of us here that are professional saddlemakers but does that mean the seat jockeys have failed??..... Rigging position is also subjective.as is "gullet measurements" equating to tree fit.. what I would consider ideal you or someone else may have a dissenting opinion. A short rear cinch is a no brainer , it should be replaced if the saddlemaker fit your horse prior to building the saddle. So to me the question is : Did you as a customer have an assurance of satisfaction from the business that you were dealing with.?? When he fit your horse was this discussed.?? In my business I have always had the policy that I try to do what ever it takes to give the customer satisfaction. A few times in 30 years I have built the customer another saddle and on one occasion I refunded the the $$ as I came to the conclusion that I couldn't please the customer. This is not always the case in this industry So to my way of thinking the options are Try and work out your differences with the maker as amiably as possible. maybe come to some middle ground... ( preferable) Demand a refund.... may or maynot work Hire a lawyer I hope you can resolve this in a way that is pleasing to both parties. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BOB BRENNER Report post Posted November 6, 2010 Goldpony, A bit of a mess here now. Why is the saddlemaker refusing to fix the very evident problem with the seat jockey? You stated there is a 6 month warrenty. Is that warrenty in your contract or verbal? Looks like the saddlemaker is on the hook for everything. Measured the horse for a custom tree and determined the rigging position. I see you are in Canada. Is the saddlemaker in Canada? Do not know where you are on this, but would suggest it is time to start crossing you T's and doting your I's. Would start by informing the saddlemaker of your concerns in writing for starters. Good luck. Bob Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
goldpony Report post Posted November 6, 2010 That is a tough one, so much of saddle fit ...etc is subjective so in some respects it is hard to say what is defective or not. (seat jockeys) Obviously what they consider ok materials is not the same as some of us here that are professional saddlemakers but does that mean the seat jockeys have failed??..... Rigging position is also subjective.as is "gullet measurements" equating to tree fit.. what I would consider ideal you or someone else may have a dissenting opinion. A short rear cinch is a no brainer , it should be replaced if the saddlemaker fit your horse prior to building the saddle. So to me the question is : Did you as a customer have an assurance of satisfaction from the business that you were dealing with.?? When he fit your horse was this discussed.?? In my business I have always had the policy that I try to do what ever it takes to give the customer satisfaction. A few times in 30 years I have built the customer another saddle and on one occasion I refunded the the $$ as I came to the conclusion that I couldn't please the customer. This is not always the case in this industry So to my way of thinking the options are Try and work out your differences with the maker as amiably as possible. maybe come to some middle ground... ( preferable) Demand a refund.... may or maynot work Hire a lawyer I hope you can resolve this in a way that is pleasing to both parties. Andy Knight, Yes. We discuss saddle fit. I was assured by the saddlemaker that the saddle would fit me and my horse. It was felt that I would be very happy with the saddle. The saddlemaker came to measure the horse for the tree. The tree was custom-made by Bill Bean. The tree was brought out and placed on the horse's back. I rode dressage for many years and we discussed the rider position, type of seat, cantle, horn, color of leather, amount of carving. I did state that I did not want ANY stamping. Notes were taken in the saddlemaker's notebook. Unfortunately the saddle has a complete border stamp. I ASSUMED (My fault - Gotta love hindsight!) that the fittings would be plain stainless steel, instead they are stainless with black inlay. I wanted the conchos (old tyme pattern I found from Mincer Silversmiths) and carving to stand out against the plain brown leather. I have tried e-mailing and telephoning. My telephone calls were not returned. I did receive and e-mail stating "DO NOT SEND THE SADDLE BACK TO ME. The parcel won't be accepted." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
goldpony Report post Posted November 6, 2010 Goldpony, A bit of a mess here now. Why is the saddlemaker refusing to fix the very evident problem with the seat jockey? You stated there is a 6 month warrenty. Is that warrenty in your contract or verbal? Looks like the saddlemaker is on the hook for everything. Measured the horse for a custom tree and determined the rigging position. I see you are in Canada. Is the saddlemaker in Canada? Do not know where you are on this, but would suggest it is time to start crossing you T's and doting your I's. Would start by informing the saddlemaker of your concerns in writing for starters. Good luck. Bob Hi Bob, Yes, a big ugly mess. Our entire agreement was verbal. We talked in person, on the telephone, and by e-mail. The saddlemaker's warranty is listed on the website (www.blackhorseleather.com) under Customer Service. The saddlemaker is in Monroe, WA. I have done my best to inform the saddlemaker of my concerns. I do not no if my e-mails or telephone messages have been reviewed. Thanks for your thoughts. Cheri Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
