Help for a novice horse owner

[jennifer]

I have been confused by your placement of the spine, but I think I got where your coming from. This picure may help clarify for others. Still not sure how you place the front of the backbone based on the outside of the horse, but I get the general idea.

Jennifer

My perspective of what would need to happen with the tree differs greatly from Rods due to one factor and that is where I would be trying to place you the rider. Here is a link to another forum where this point is being discussed. You should understand that where you want to sit should be one of the first questions you should ask in regards to fitting a saddle as it changes everything form the tree building perspective.

I would view this horse as being to the extreme side of the down hill spectrum. Perhaps it will level some but looking at where the neck ties in I wouldn't count on much. The yellow line on the attached picture is approximately where the spine is on this horse. As a rider you will need to learn to support this conformation.

David Genadek

[JRedding]

Jennifer, I'm glad you took that so well, some don't. That mare's still real young, ride her into shape and let her finish growing before you overdiagnos anything and panick. Horses that young often look high in the butt, six or eight months ago she likely didn't One old rancher around here thats raised more colts than most always said colts grow one end at a time and if you watch close their high in the butt and then their front end catches up and then their high in the butt again until their front end catches up. Just out of curiosity do you know how to measure her and see how much growth she has left? Horses are just like kids they grow and mature at their own pace. There's nothing wrong with that mare some time and a lot of wet saddleblankets won't cure. Stick with it get her out of the arenas and round pens, put some miles on her and enjoy her while you're saddle shopping.

[timjtodd]

I would have to agree with JRedding. Knock at least 100 lbs off the mare and you'll be looking at a whole different back to fit. Granted you'll still probably need a saddle that is pretty wide where the bars meet the fork at the base of the gullet, but without all that extra "flesh" you'll have a much better chance of finding a saddle that fits. You might want to do the same with your three year old as she looks like she's packing extra weight too.

T

Edited May 7, 2008 by timjtodd

[bruce johnson]

Jennifer,

To get this back on track, you still have to fit bars to the back of your mare. That is the first order of business. Or the first order of business after she gets into shape whichever way you approach it. I'm with Jim, I'd get her in shape and then approach it. I think we all agree that she is built a little downhill. Picture angles and such can make that look one way or the other, but she probably won't shrink much in hind leg length, and might gain a little in front legs, will fill in and tighten up, but at four those growth plates are all but closed. You have what you have, and the lines down her side wherever you place them are going to be downhill. That is part of her, and a ton (no pun intended) of horses are that way. I've got one, and so have most people who have been around. People ride a lot of them and do just fine. The most square inches of bar on her with the least bridging and no edges digging in will fit her the best. That is the simple answer. The harder answer is - that is done with bar shape, spread, and angles. That has to be determined. What maker does to the topside is somewhat dependent on the bottom. Not always. but mostly.

David,

I have been following a lot of what you have written and on your website for at least a year and a half. Some I understand, and some I don't. I know you have some other ideas than many tree makers. I have seen the line drawings, but would be interested in seeing pictures of where your trees differ, and where you position them on the live horse. That would probably clear up a lot of the confusion. My seats generally have the same or more scoop in the side profile as the ones on your website, and really are not a lot different than many other handmakers. We may all be sitting pretty much in the same place? Maybe start a new topic to keep this one on track. I have to laugh on the painting. I am glad I wasn't a knight in 1500. If the live horse was bogged down that much in the back as in the painting, I am not sure my ride would have held up long enough to get to the battle, let alone pack me through it. I wonder how many of those mounted knights ended up in the infantry pretty early in the fight.

[jennifer]

This has been a great learning experience!

What I am hearing is that I need to get Sunny in shape, but to get her in shape I need to get her a saddle.

From what Rod and Denise Nikkel wrote the main concerns for Sunny is the width between the bars both at the front and back of the saddle and that the angle of the bars and that the profile of the bottom of the saddle be flat. The other concerns dealt with the skirts rubbing the loin or the bar tips causing the skirts to rub the shoulders.

From some of the pms I've gotten and what I've read on the forum it seems that I will need to stretch the budget to go with a custom built saddle, but if I stay with a plain saddle my husband won't need to go hungry too long to make up the difference. May cut Sunny back and throw that extra into the budget as well.

It sounds like some production trees may fit her, if it is the right one and the saddle maker knows how to keep the underside flat the bar tips curved and blocks the skirts.

Still not quite sure what would be done differently for the "downhill" build.

What are your recommendations? Production or custom tree?

Do you know of any saddles for sale that you believe would be a good fit for the horse?

If not do you have any recommendations of saddle makers that don't have too long of a wait time?

Do you believe I should wait for the custom saddle till she has some work and finishes growing? (She was 4 years old on May 1.)

If so what would you recommend using in the meantime?

What about fitting the saddle to the rider? When I rode a lot trail horses back in the 80s each horse had a saddle. We rode whatever fit the horse. When I rode english 3 gait, 5 gait and hunter it was always lessons and you were handed the saddle by the instructor. From what I have read it seems that I would probably be a 15 or 15 1/2. 5'6 163 lbs, but unlike most women I am more of an upside down pear, size 8 pants, size 12 top, 21 inch thigh. Anything else you need to know?

How about saddle style. Most of what I have tried lately have been wade style saddles. I think what we rode back in the day would have been what I have seen called low association style trees. To me, I felt pretty balanced in either type. What are your preferences for basic trail riding?

I know, I am a glutten - still want more information!

Thanks,

Jennifer

.

Jennifer,

To get this back on track, you still have to fit bars to the back of your mare. That is the first order of business. Or the first order of business after she gets into shape whichever way you approach it. I'm with Jim, I'd get her in shape and then approach it. I think we all agree that she is built a little downhill. Picture angles and such can make that look one way or the other, but she probably won't shrink much in hind leg length, and might gain a little in front legs, will fill in and tighten up, but at four those growth plates are all but closed. You have what you have, and the lines down her side wherever you place them are going to be downhill. That is part of her, and a ton (no pun intended) of horses are that way. I've got one, and so have most people who have been around. People ride a lot of them and do just fine. The most square inches of bar on her with the least bridging and no edges digging in will fit her the best. That is the simple answer. The harder answer is - that is done with bar shape, spread, and angles. That has to be determined. What maker does to the topside is somewhat dependent on the bottom. Not always. but mostly.

David,

I have been following a lot of what you have written and on your website for at least a year and a half. Some I understand, and some I don't. I know you have some other ideas than many tree makers. I have seen the line drawings, but would be interested in seeing pictures of where your trees differ, and where you position them on the live horse. That would probably clear up a lot of the confusion. My seats generally have the same or more scoop in the side profile as the ones on your website, and really are not a lot different than many other handmakers. We may all be sitting pretty much in the same place? Maybe start a new topic to keep this one on track. I have to laugh on the painting. I am glad I wasn't a knight in 1500. If the live horse was bogged down that much in the back as in the painting, I am not sure my ride would have held up long enough to get to the battle, let alone pack me through it. I wonder how many of those mounted knights ended up in the infantry pretty early in the fight.

[Doug Mclean]

Jennifer:

This mare is likely to stay fairly wide through out her life. Not that she is bad because of it. For what you are wanting to do it sounds like her attitude is probably as important as conformation. If you are wanting a quick fix for less money. Potts Longhorn made a production saddle with full quarterhorse bars in 70s. There is probably one setting on a rack somewhere with your name on it. Get the word out on the internet you might be surprised. Still a good idea to have a saddle maker work with you and get the custom saddle made. One piece of advise and it may have already been stated. Try and find some middle ground on the tree fitting. This horse may not be with you for ever and the next one could be all together different.

[Johanna]

I split this informative thread into two topics in order to keep Jennifer's original post and questions on track. The rest of the topic is here:

http://leatherworker.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=2913

Johanna