Why Is This Happening?

[rccolt45]

I am having a problem with my dye wearing off the holsters I make.

I am using good quality W and C leather and the dye is Anglus black with angleus sealer.

This holster has only been worn for about a week every day 12 hours a day and its wearing off ?

I usually use two coats of dye and two coats of sealer. The leather is dry over night before I dye.

Can anyone help me ?

Edited December 1, 2010 by rccolt45

[TimKleffner]

RCColt

what you've got is just plain wearing where the holster comes in contact with the trousers. If this holster is only 2-4 weeks old, this should not be happening this soon. Is your customer complaining about black on his/ her trousers?

The process that I use is, [for black only] dye black , lightly oil [if no tooling I rub the oil in well] , I use acrylic resolene product from Feibings as my finish coat. I submerse my holster in 60 resolene 40 water. I completely saturate my holster in this mix, pull it out and wipe it down and let it dry. You'll might notice that black bleeding into the mix. that's OK Let your holster air dry and cure out for 24-48 hrs. I have high humidity down here so I prefer the 48 hrs.

I prefer not to dye my anything that I make with black ! the color just doesn't seem to last and there is a higher probability that it will off onto someones clothes.

I hope this works.. I've used this process for 8 years while I was making black duty gear for the local pd

Happy tooling

Tim

[King's X]

I agree with TimK. You might want to search LW for the Vinegroon process? You might get a better result though I must say that I have never used it only because as TimK states my experience with black is not good especially if the dye is sitting on the top layer instead of down in the dermis fibers.

I hope this helps.

[rccolt45]

King, I am applying the black with a wool applicator as well as the sealer. Two questions for you. Do you think dipping into the sealer is making a difference or can I still brush on the resolene stuff? Why do you cutt your resolene with water? I have been using angelus sealer straight from the bottle. Is this wrong?

As to the vinagaroon stuff I have heard of it and most posts make it look very complicated to do. What is it anyway???

[TimKleffner]

RC

I use a dauber also to apply the black dye. I use Fiebings black spirit dye. I apply one coat, buff excess then re apply the dye to cover any streaks I may have left behind.

I cut the resolene with water because it is so thick and does not penetrate the leather as well. I use the dip method as I finish the interior and exterior. I use a dauber and work the resolene on to the leather with it. I submerse the piece in the mix for 30-90 seconds constantly working the dauber inside and outside the piece. I bring out the piece and wipe off all excess and bubbles that congregate.

I've never used the vinagaroon method.

Hope this works .. try it on a scrap piece, see if it works for you

Happy tooling

Tim

[troop]

RC i too use W/C leather with great results. i used to dye it myself but to save time, with so many orders, i have begun to order my leather from them already drum dyed. well worth the small increase in cost.

Tony

[TwinOaks]

The key to any dye job is buffing off the non-absorbed dye particles....before sealing.

[rccolt45]

Twin Oaks when you say buffing out. I have been polishing with a shoe type brush. Is there a better way?

[busted]

I am having a problem with my dye wearing off the holsters I make.

I am using good quality W and C leather and the dye is Anglus black with angleus sealer.

This holster has only been worn for about a week every day 12 hours a day and its wearing off ?

I usually use two coats of dye and two coats of sealer. The leather is dry over night before I dye.

Can anyone help me ?

You need to try submersing the leather in your dye instead of dabbing a little on the leather. Get yourself a 9 x 13 Teflon coated cake pan. Put enough dye in the pan to completely cover the leather.

Immerse the leather 60 to 90 seconds. You need to prepare a place to lay your newly dyed project or if you have already punched holes to sew it up use one of those holes and a piece of thread and hang it on a nail

and allow it to drip dry (over night). Buff out the topcoat when it is dried and finish the project. Then apply the Resolene. The 60/40 mix sounds pretty good, follow his directions for using that mixture. This should greatly improve your finish. You should notice a very different finish allow it to dry buff out the excess

If you would be interested in trying a different topcoat I would suggest Beilers Tuff & Glossy Leather Finish in black. I t will not rub off once applied and allowed to dry. Beiler's Manf. & Supply 717 768 0174 Ronks, Pa ask for their catalog. Good luck.

[Shorts]

I am having a problem with my dye wearing off the holsters I make.

I am using good quality W and C leather and the dye is Anglus black with angleus sealer.

This holster has only been worn for about a week every day 12 hours a day and its wearing off ?

I usually use two coats of dye and two coats of sealer. The leather is dry over night before I dye.

Can anyone help me ?

One thing you may try is cutting the black dye with denatured alcohol. I've toyed back and forth with my Angelus black dye for the same reason you've got pictured (and I've seen photos of other well known makers with the same exact problem, so its not just you). I think the mixture I'm working with now is 75% dye, 25% denatured alcohol. The DA gives the pigment a better chance at penetrating the leather. You will have to use more applications until you've got the leather nice and full. You do want to fully dry each coat and then buff well each before applying the next. That way you can see just how well the mixture does for you. You can force dry between coats, use warm moving air, not hot. You don't wanna burn the leather. Think hair dryer on the low warm setting.

I've tried the black at full strength and its just too thick.

Now your build process may come into play here. You do stand a better chance with the dye penetrating if you dye the leather before you wet mold. The redye again after. The hitch here is that your leather will become sticky and grab your boning tool when you try to detail bone the leather. I don't like the way it does that so I don't dye until near the end.

Ok, just thought I'd throw that out there for you. Worth a shot and see if you can find the sweet spot that works for you.

[Shorts]

Ok, been pulling my hair out over this. I just worked on a holster and I think I have figured out this problem. This is a dye penetration issue, not a sealing issue. Remember here folks, we're working with dye, not paint. Dyes penetrate the materials. Paints sit on the surface.

The short & simple answer is dye must be applied to leather that has not been pressed/compressed.

For example, like this:

I dye the leather under all mouth reinforcements and belt tunnels before they are glued and stitched on. I do this to ensure that glue doesn't interfere and resist dye, leaving a glaring undye-able area in these tight sections. Once these initial pieces are stitched on, the construction continues. Glue the holster, edge, stitch and wet mold (which includes pressing). That bring us to a dryed, molded holster ready for dye.

SORRY FOR THE NOT-THE-CLEAREST PICS

Now I dye the holster, then buff. Here is the result:

You can see in the yellow circle the difference in how much the dye penetrated the leather. The darker area was dyed prior to wet mold (as in the belt tunnel picture up there). The lighter area (and entire holster for that matter) was dyed and buffed, several times, after wet mold. The only explainable difference is the structure of the leather. Before wet mold the leather fibers are porous and open. After a wet mold that includes pressing the leather, the fibers are compacted and tight. The dye just cannot penetrate the compacted fibers (even diluted). I tried several coats of dye and buffs and was left with that result above.

Well....heck...I need to save this holster somehow. The solution? Saturate the inside of the holster using a dauber. Saturate the heck out of it until you can see the dye puddling in there (if you turn it over and look on the outside you should see the dye seeping through the grain). Now reapply dye to the outside of the holster. Wait a minute or two so that the dye has time to work in there and meet in the middle. Now force dry with a hair dryer (this will minimize wet time which slightly softens the interior molding detail). It won't take long since the dye is alcohol. Buff the piece you just dyed and inspect the leather. You should have pretty much have it covered now. If you're satisfied with the results, do the other side the same way. Once its dry, buff well.

Here is the result:

As you can see the dye job has evened out quite a bit. It's much better than in that first pic and does save the holster. Now the holster can be finished up knowing the dye is "in there" instead of just sitting on the surface.

With all the above information said this brings into question the order of construction on holsters, specifically black ones that show such a color contrast.

Some makers dye leather before doing anything else. This is the best way to ensure solid, thorough dye coverage that will not rub off. However, I don't think this is not without consequence. It's highly likely that you'll get dye residue all over everything involved in your construction process. Things like your hands, your sewing table/platform, and your press pads to name a few. Also if you bone your holsters, the dyed surface grabs the boning tool, making it difficult to slide the tool over the leather for nice lines. I have no idea if the dye residue concerns and smooth boning issues can be worked around. I would like to hear further input on these two things from those who have found solutions.

If you wish to dye holsters after they are wet molded it seems you can still do that using the method of saturating the interior of the holster, then dying the outside. The results should be acceptable.

If you do not press your holsters during wet mold you might not experience such a drastic dye hurdle.

Ok, those are my thoughts and observations. Hope it helps.