Pfaff 461 Industrial Sewing machine

[tazzmann]

I am looking at picking up a Pfaff model 461 Industrial sewing machine for free today and was wondering if anyone had any information on these machines. I have looked on the web and have come up with the instruction and service manual in electronic form, but was wondering if any sewers here have come up with anything? The guy who is selling it doesn't know a whole lot about it. His dad got it from a factory about five years ago and has since passed. He believes it runs on 3 phase power. Any ideas?

[Art]

Hi Mike, go get it before it's gone. It is (not knowing all the trailing numbers) a needle feed, drop feed flat bed machine, but not walking foot I think. Sews heavy fabric and light leather, put a new motor on to change the voltage, new motor is less than $150. Nice machine, but not a real leather machine, but will work in a pinch.

Art

Art

I am looking at picking up a Pfaff model 461 Industrial sewing machine for free today and was wondering if anyone had any information on these machines. I have looked on the web and have come up with the instruction and service manual in electronic form, but was wondering if any sewers here have come up with anything? The guy who is selling it doesn't know a whole lot about it. His dad got it from a factory about five years ago and has since passed. He believes it runs on 3 phase power. Any ideas?

[tazzmann]

It might be gone already. I just went out to craigslist and see that the author has deleted the posting. I told him I would be over after work to pick it up, but hopefully he didn't give it to someone else.

Edit: The service manual I found for the 461 said it was a High-Speed, Lockstitch Compound feed. Whatever all that means. (I obviously don't sew, but want to learn more about it).

Edited May 5, 2008 by tazzmann

[tazzmann]

Well, I picked up the machine tonight and the model number is: 461-6/2-900 BS. It needs some TLC, but I think I can get it running.

Not sure about swapping the motor though. There is a box underneath the table that says something about needle synchronization and there is a wire that runs from it to a mechanical, magnetic pickup on the main shaft. I am going to tear into this machine and table tomorrow and start cleaning it up and figuring out what I need to do to get it back to as close to original as possible.

Even if it doesn't do leather that well, it is still going to be fun making this thing go "vroom"!

[bcurrier]

Edit: The service manual I found for the 461 said it was a High-Speed, Lockstitch Compound feed. Whatever all that means. (I obviously don't sew, but want to learn more about it).

Compound feed just means that more than one feeding mechanism is used. In this case it's a combination of needle feed and drop feed. High-speed means whatever the manufacturer thinks the target market will like, frankly. Lockstitch just means the machine produces a two-thread (top and bobbin) ISO 301 stitch type - your garden-variety "normal" sewing machine stitch.

Needle feed uses a mechanism to move the needle bar (the part that holds the needle) back and forth - the needle enters the material up front at the start of the stitch, pulls the material back as the needle descends then starts to rise, finally exiting the material at the back of the stroke when the stitch is complete. It actually uses the needle to move the material and control the stitch length. Needle feed works very well with leather, but needle feed alone starts becoming problematic when the material becomes very stiff or heavy, which is where combinations with additional feed mechanisms (like drop feed or walking feet) comes into play.

Drop feed is a mechanism that uses ridged feed dogs below the bed of the machine that rise at the front at the start of the stitch, move backwards during the stitch stroke, carrying the material with them, then drop back below the bed again at the end of the stroke. Pressure from the foot keeps the material against the dogs. Generally, drop feed mechanisms aren't the best to use with leather as they mark the bottom of the leather - in the worst cases chewing it up. You can offset that in several ways: by removing the feed dogs entirely, by dulling their teeth, by replacing the dogs with ones with more and smaller teeth, and/or by minimizing their rise above the surface of the bed.

Walking foot mechanisms - and there are several variants of them - are commonly used with needle feed for heavy leather stitching because it works in conjunction with the needle feed, moving in sync (usually) with the needle, and also - key point - helping to hold the material properly to get a good stitch.

There are other ways to accomplish this, such as automated material positioning and pulling mechanisms, but for sheer flexibility, which is what's important in a machine used for handicraft work, nothing beats the combination of needle feed and alternating walking feet.

Hope this helps.

Bill

[bcurrier]

Synchronizers are used together with a motor control in order to provide needle positioning. Basically it gives you the option to automatically have the needle either up or down when you stop sewing. Down is useful when you do a lot of turns, as you want to pivot on the needle itself. The positioner not only lets you stop needle down, but at the proper point in the needle stoke so as not to drop a stitch when you turn the material. Needle up is useful in production situations as the material can removed immediately and the thread trimmed without the operator having to manually turn the handwheel or goose the motor to get the needle out of the way. Since you've acquired a production machine, you may find you also have an automatic thread trimmer installed as well.

Bill

[tazzmann]

Wow! Thanks for all the info Bill. I have been doing some research on this machine and it is going to be hard getting parts for it, so I have the head sitting off to one side and am using the table for a Singer 16-188 that the mother-in-laws dad used for upholstery. I know it works, though it was mounted on a home made rickety table, so the table for the pfaff will have to do. The cut out for the sewing machine is exactly the same size. I just have to mount the motor for this machine to the table as the motor for the Pfaff was a 220V.

The Singer needs a little cleaning and such but turns freely. I do have a manual on the way for the Singer so I know what all the gizmos are for, but I will probably have a lot more questions as I have NO experience with sewing machines and have no idea what the terminologies are or how to use one.

I also have a Yamata that Duke (from this forum) is letting me use. It apparently was dropped on the back end while at the store and has some bent and broken parts, which I have on order, so that is another one I will be able to play with when it is working.

Eventually I want to get a Tipmann Boss or an Artisan, but that may be down the road. Even if I can't sew through thick leather with any of these machines, at least I can get the basic concept of sewing down.