My vinagaroon effort

[Ian]

My first vinagroon colored project - a tool bag for an Indian (world's fastest, maybe). The process is pretty magical, but the drawbacks, I found, were the lost time in drying, and also, despite a couple of rinses, baking soda bath, neatsfoot, Bag Kote finish and a full lining inside, I can STILL smell the vinagar. Maybe a bit of time on the bike will fix that problem, but I think I might stick with regular dye.

[Hilly]

You do very nice work! Thanks for posting.

Someone else on this forum said that it took some time before the vinegar smell went away completely.

[Beaverslayer]

Ian, that turned out real nice, and the black color is actually the best I've seen yet. What would happen if you diluted the vinagar a bit before using it as a dye? Or could you use that apple vinagar so the smell is a bit nicer?

Ken

[Ian]

Ian, that turned out real nice, and the black color is actually the best I've seen yet. What would happen if you diluted the vinagar a bit before using it as a dye? Or could you use that apple vinagar so the smell is a bit nicer?

Ken

Actually Beav, the color is a lot deeper black in person. I had to rumage through the pantry to assemble my concoction. I just had bottles with a little bit in each, so there's some wine vinagar, a little rice vinagar and a bit of red vinigar - maybe that's my problem.

[Luke Hatley]

IAN, after is it is all said and done what is the difference in the look of the vinigar dye vs fiebeings oil dye?

also ,you do some fine work........

Edited May 10, 2008 by Luke Hatley

[Ian]

IAN, after is it is all said and done what is the difference in the look of the vinigar dye vs fiebeings oil dye?

also ,you do some fine work........

Thanks Luke, I guess if you're stuck on a desert island with just a jar of pickles, you could drain out the juice and dye the hide of the wild boar you killed and skinned with your bare hands, but until then, I'll uncap the bottle of Fiebings. Only plus I can see is the penetration all the way through with the vinagar.

[rdb]

That's a beaut! You do know your stuff, that's for sure!

With each passing day, the odor will dissipate.

For me, the color is awesome, i prefer it. You can't do any rush jobs with this stuff, but the time waiting is worth it, to me. The important thing is no bleed or rub off. Scratches don't show cause the black goes deep into the hide.

[whinewine]

The important thing is no bleed or rub off. Scratches don't show cause the black goes deep into the hide.

As rdb said, there's no crocking. If you've ever used tandy/fiebings/omega/whatever dye, the aggrevation of buffing till your arms/hands/fingers ache (& still having the damn stuff rub off) isn't there. I'll take the vinegar smell anytime.

the ecoflo black is the closest i've come to lack of crocking, but it will run unless well sealed. the vinegaroon doesn't run & doesn't crock & goes virtually the whole way through

[TwinOaks]

I Vig'd a holster (yes, I'm still trying to get pics of it- scheduling problem with the new holster owner) and it came out fantastic. I didn't soak the leather though, I just 'painted' with the compound. Also, in my solution, I think I've pretty well neutralized the acid. I added a teaspoon of baking soda directly into a half cup of Vig juice and saw almost NO reaction. After several minutes there was some very slight bubbling on the surface of the baking soda. When I made the mix, I used steel wool, then a week later added a handful of nails. I think the process made the ferric acetate, and effectively 'used up' all the acid. Back to the holster. Even though I daubbed the mix on, I have pretty thorough saturation. I did a soda rinse, rinse with water,and then baked it heat the leather. After the 10 minute bake, I re-neutralized, and re-rinsed with water, then baked for ~20 min. at 150 in a convection oven. The leather emerged formed, dry, very firm, and completely free of any vinegar smell. Then I coated with Aussie wax, bagged the gun, slathered Aussie on it, and holstered the weapon. A short while and several draw/reholster actions later ( along with some difficult pressing of the hardened leather around the barrel) I'd pretty well coated the insided of the holster everywhere leather meets steel. More cooling and drying, with the pistol in place, and it was complete. The heat drying also shrank the leather just a tad, and the holster has ZERO shake with the pistol when the thumb break strap is in place. For solid black items, I'll use no other method.

[ChuckBurrows]

One question re: the smell - are you sealing your bottles tight or letting them "breath"? If you are not letting them breath (i.e. cracking the lid enought for the mix to off gas) then the odor will linger much longer - once my mix has dissolved all of the iron there is little smell when I open the bottle.....

[rdb]

Now you tell us!!!!....lol

One question re: the smell - are you sealing your bottles tight or letting them "breath"? If you are not letting them breath (i.e. cracking the lid enought for the mix to off gas) then the odor will linger much longer - once my mix has dissolved all of the iron there is little smell when I open the bottle.....

[sodapop]

well i tried the vinagroon...it works like a charm!!...and this was just the 2nd day of letting the mixture sit...i used railroad spikes, which were already coated with rust...i dipped in a piece of natural hide for about 10 seconds...& let it dry...turned jet black

its just the coolest thing to see it work like that

darryl

p.s thanks chuck for the destinker tip!!

Edited May 12, 2008 by sodapop

[fishguy]

I have used vinegaroon quite a bit on hunting pouches, holsters, etc. and it is pretty cool. All you need is vinegar and some form of iron or steel (smaller pieces make a good dye faster), usually it needs to soak at least overnight. The dissolved iron reacts with the tannins in the leather (so it only works on veg-tanned leather) to make a black compound. This compound is actually similar to old fashioned oak-gall ink (a good source of tannins that actually has been used in the past for tanning leather) which was made by mixing crushed oak galls with iron salts. If the vinegaroon gets old, with lots of rust, it becomes weak. I think you can just pour the old vinegar off and add new (if you can get rid of the rust scum when you pour off the old vinegar, all the better). How dark the leather will get will vary a bit between batches of leather. Sometimes you can only get a dark, kind of cloudy gray (which actually looks pretty cool), but don't worry, when you oil it up it will darken to black. I use a baking soda rinse and then hang the stuff up to dry. It still has a bit of a vinegar smell, but that is the smell of authenticity. At least it is not as bad as in the old days when they used stale piss to set indigo dye, that was a bit less pleasant smell of authenticity.