Pancale Holster Help

[Louro]

Hi, there guys

I'm new to this forum so I need a little help with a pancake holster that I want to make for my 1911. I got everything pretty much figure out except the cant (angle). Is there is formula/method to determine the proper cant. I made the pattern out of poster board but when I transferred to the leather the cant didn't came out the way that I had hoped. Can I get some pointers in this area?

Thanks

Lou

[Shooter McGavin]

Hi Lou,

When you make you pattern you should include the cant angle in the design. I've done this 2 different ways.

Method 1: Start with the gun straight up and down, and adjust the cant by placement of the belt slots.

Method 2: Start with the belt loops straight across from each other on your template, and adjust the cant by angling the firearm.

Either way you do it, once you get it set where you want, trace the firearm to the template, then draw your profile stitch lines.

After everything is drawn, I lay the template to leather, and use an awl to scribe the outline, as well as poke through the template where the stitch lines need to be so I have reference marks on the leather.

Heres one where I started with the gun straight up and down, and adjusted the belt slots to the 15 degree cant angle.

Hope this helps some.

[gregintenn]

Here's how I make a pattern. I lay an inch and a half belt on a manilla file folder or piece of posterboard and trace it. Next I position the handgun on the belt in the position which I'd like it to ride in the finished holster, and trace it onto the posterboard. After that, I just draw the holster aroun the outline of the gun. It sounds simple, but it works.

[marine mp]

Louro, Both Shooter McGavin and gregintenn have covered the topic pretty well. Don't try to complicate the whole process. Read the post by Lobo that he just recently did and it will tell pretty much how to do the rest of the holster-making. Just a thot from myself that I've found.....I prefer a 10 degree cant to the weapon instead of the typical 15 degree. Just my preference. GOD bless. Semper-fi Mike

[Wyvern]

I am very new to holster making and have a question. How much do you add around the weapon when you draw your sew lines? Al Stolman book adds 3/4 of an inch. Is that enough for wet forming a holster of this type? Paddle?

Thanks

Donnie

[Lobo]

I am very new to holster making and have a question. How much do you add around the weapon when you draw your sew lines? Al Stolman book adds 3/4 of an inch. Is that enough for wet forming a holster of this type? Paddle?

Thanks

Donnie

Donnie:

For traditional 2-panel pancake holsters the general rule is to allow 1/2 the thickness of the weapon plus the thickness of your leather (8 oz. veg-tanned is about 1/8" thickness). So, a semi-auto pistol with a thickness of 1" results in offsetting the stitch lines by 5/8"; a pistol having a thickness of .850" requires an offset of 0.425" + 0.125", or 0.55"; and so forth. This will get you very close to where you want to be in most cases. Thickness of various parts of a handgun may vary considerably (slide, trigger guard, dust cover, revolver cylinders, etc, all provide variations). Some of this may be overcome by stretching during the wet-forming process, but that can also result in unpredictable distortion of your stitch lines.

Over time you will develop patterns that provide the exact fit you want for each handgun model. I suggest starting and maintaining a file of stitching patterns for each holster design and handgun model; this allows you to replicate the results you want in future production.

Locating stitch lines for a proper fit with other holster styles requires a different approach. When first patterning a particular holster design for a new handgun application I prefer to make a heavy paper pattern (manila file folders work well for this). The pattern can be formed around the handgun and the outline traced as nearly as possible. Variations will need to be made depending on how you are constructing your seams. A 2-layer seam requires a bit more leather to accomodate the handgun's thickness. A welted-seam provides additional rigidity while also permitting closer fitting to the handgun profile. Allowances need to be made for forming sight channels, if that feature is to be incorporated.

Again, leather stretching will take place during the wet-forming process, and this needs to be accounted for to reach the best result. Expect some trial and error with each new application, and when you have fine-tuned your pattern for that holster design and handgun, that pattern should be saved for future use.

Paper patterns can be transfered onto more durable materials such as Plexiglas, Lexan, or thin plywood. The pattern can be cut to exact shape then stitch lines, belt slots, and other features can be cut in with a router. This is tedious and detailed work, but the result can become far more permanent than paper. Making 8 standard holster models with 4 common options for over 90 different handguns, I have hundreds of patterns in my files, so I have seldom made the effort to pursue this method. As my patterns start showing wear and tear I just copy them and cut a new pattern.

Over time you will develop the ability to estimate very closely when patterning new designs and working with new handguns, based upon your experiences with others. You can also expect a surprise now and then when your estimating does not produce the result you were expecting. It's all part of the learning curve, and that curve never stands still (at least not for me).

Best regards.

Edited January 27, 2011 by Lobo

[Wyvern]

Many thanks, Lobo

[Big O]

Hi, there guys

I'm new to this forum so I need a little help with a pancake holster that I want to make for my 1911. I got everything pretty much figure out except the cant (angle). Is there is formula/method to determine the proper cant. I made the pattern out of poster board but when I transferred to the leather the cant didn't came out the way that I had hoped. Can I get some pointers in this area?

Thanks

Lou

The "proper" cant is that which works best for you.

Here's how I figure it out:

I take the UNLOADED pistol and hold it in my hand in a proper, full, combat grip with my index finger along the frame. I put it against my belt in the position where I intend to wear the holster. I move it up and down, and cant it back and forth, until I find what feels like the most comfortable position. Then I simulate a few presentations - a dozen or so. When I put it back against the belt that last time, I make note of where the top of the belt crosses the pistol at the top of the slide (or topstrap if a revolver) and at the bottom of the trigger guard. I then mark those two points on my traced outline, and put a line through them. That's where the top of the belt goes. Measure down the width of the belt and draw a parallel line. There's your belt, on your pattern.

[Louro]

To all that reply, thanks. I have been very busy lately, I mange to make the template but it looks kind of big to me, will see. Lobo, you said to add .5 inch is that both ways from the center line?

regards

[Big O]

To all that reply, thanks. I have been very busy lately, I mange to make the template but it looks kind of big to me, will see. Lobo, you said to add .5 inch is that both ways from the center line?

regards

Half the thickness of the pistol. And that's drawn around the outline of the pistol. (not understanding the "center line" bit)

Measure the width of the slide, divide that by 2, set a compass to that width, and follow the outline. For an open-bottomed holster, I'd leave the muzzle end as is, making it either flush with the end of the slide or just a wee bit longer. For a closed-bottomed holster, you'll definitely need that extra leather.

[PHIPPS CRAFTED LEATHER]

I think he's asking if it's the thickness divided by 2 and if it comes out to say half an inch is that the distance away from the template on both sides. I think that's what he's asking anyway.

[Louro]

I think he's asking if it's the thickness divided by 2 and if it comes out to say half an inch is that the distance away from the template on both sides. I think that's what he's asking anyway.

Phipps, thtas exactly what I'm asking. Thanks for clearing that up.