Saddle Business Questions

[jennifer]

I am a business data analyst, not a saddle maker, but I think one of the most difficult problems facing the custom saddle making industry is lack of consumer education.

How does the consumer know which saddles are built on custom trees, do they need a custom tree, why should they spend $4000.00 on a plain saddle, when they can buy a fancy saddle on e-bay for $1000.00? They are going to trust big name trainers on RFDTV and their local tack shop.

If I Google custom western saddle makers I find a list of 50 makers at http://www.western-saddle-guide.com/saddle-makers.html, www.budshaulsaddlery.com, and www.knightssaddlery.com/aboutandy.html,

The only advertisements for used saddles that had any good information on the tree was http://eclectic-horseman.com/content/view/126/100/ which I only found by googleing 93 degree bars western saddle. E-bay ads are worthless.

I have market questions that may prove interesting:

How many of you pay your local tack shop for referrals equal to what they would make on the sale of one of the production saddles on the shelf?

Do you keep track of your saddles after sale?

Do you offer to resell your saddles for the customer if they decide to sell? (This could satisfy the buy-it-now customer)

Do you know the resale value of your saddles?

Are you interested in increasing market share or are you too busy for comfort now?

Is your greatest interest the welfare of the horse or your income? Where is the balance? (You may not want to answer this one on a public forum)

If you want increased market share how do we go about educating the public and finding the potential customer?

Are you interested in being fairly paid for your work product or meeting fair market pricing (what a willing buyer will pay a willing seller)?

Do you know what your time is worth? (To make $70,000 / year you need to produce one plain saddle per week, 50 weeks a year, with $1400.00 profit per saddle.)

Could you increase profits and share your knowledge by hiring an apprentice or working with students (volunteers) to assist in making the plain saddle parts and learn tooling on scraps?

Hope I haven’t overwhelmed you with my discussion points.

Jennifer

**I split this topic from another because these are good questions, and it was in post #24 of a lonnger thread~Johanna

[Jackie]

I am in a different market than most of the saddle makers who have posted here. $4000 plus for a saddle is fine if you make your money from the back of a horse (ie: rancher, working cowboy, competitive competitor, etc.).

The majority of horse back riders nowadays is the middle age woman recreational rider. That is my target buyer. That puts me in the sub $2000 price range.

[mulefool]

Those are great questions to ponder, Jennifer. The pricing thing is a constant struggle for me. The funny thing is every time I grit my teeth and raise my prices, I think the next time I quote someone they will be gasping or something. When they say 'well, that's not as bad as I thought" I think maybe I didn't raise them ENOUGH. I do alot of out of state business with a catalog (just changed to a website) and in the interest of keeping shipping charges easy for the customer to figure out I had some set rates for various amounts of merchandise. I started to check out my quotes on the UPS website now and I was way off, because they've added alot of extra surcharges and stuff since I did my original estimates. I'm in the process of redoing alot of prices. When a supplier announces for example a 2% price increase I have always thought well maybe I'll just absorb that for awhile. How dumb is that???? My resolution this year is to keep track of increases and raise my prices accordingly.

Jackie, that's interesting what you say about the middle aged recreational rider. I've kind of found the opposite to be true. I've found an awful lot who are very concerned about the well fare of their horses and willing to pay top dollar to get it. Their horses are usually their main pastime and they will spend alot of disposable income on them. Of course you have to target the ones with a fairly high amount of disposable income, I guess. It seems like it would be hard to turn out a 'custom saddle" for under 2000 and make any money on it.

[BrianHochstrat]

You sound alot like me Mulefoot, every time I have to raise my price I hold my breath and wait for the worst. The reality is we probably don't charge enough. Also I too have found that most educated recreational rider do not mind shelling out a bit more to make themselves and Ole'Brownie more confortable on their weekly trail ride. I have done a few talks with riding clubs about the importance of saddle fit and things and one thing I stress is that in all the expense of being a horse owner,pickups,trailers,shoeing,ect. a quality saddle is a small investment, and it will directly effect the pleasure of riding. As a collective we do need to try to get more articles in the horsey magazines about the importance of fit, and that quality costs initually, but saves in the long term, so to displace the notion a saddle should only cost $2000

As for the balance of the welfare of the horse and staying in business, you have to put the comfort of the horse and rider first. Staying in business will follow. It only takes a few back biting saddles to ruin your reputation, at least on the local level, but even on the national level word will get around. So, build the best product you can, with the best materials avaliable and set your prices to where you can make the money you need, if you cannot make a go of it, you may have to do some rethinking about you business venture. Just my outlook on things-Brian

[D.A. Kabatoff]

Well put Brian! I have always found it annoying listening to people whine about poor saddle fit only to find out they are trying to fit their twenty thousand dollar horse, towed in a thirty thousand dollar trailer behind a fifty thousand truck with the cheapest saddle they could find. As you mentioned, it is the one piece of equipment that directly relates to the comfort and perfomance of both horse and rider... and on top of that, when the truck and trailer have ran their usual course of about 8 - 10 years, the saddle will be going strong for a good while longer, all the time looking better with age. The thought of it all makes me want to go boost my base price!

Darc

[jennifer]

I obviously don't know a lot about the saddle making business, but I am one of those 46 year old women who got a horse to re-capture our youth, so I have some understanding of your market.

There are a few of us that won't spend a dime for anything, like the woman who got two free horses for her kids to ride, one blind and the second one that passes out and falls over occasionally. Let Wintec have her as a client.

However, the majority of people I have met really want to do the best thing for their horse.

I will admit that I seem to be the odd ball out on saddle selection. I was lucky with my first saddle. I bought a saddle for $750.00. That could have been disastrous, but it happened that I trusted the right person who sold me a beat up old saddle with a good tree rather than a pretty cheep saddle that looked a lot prettier. I've actually put up with a bit of flack for spending that amount on something so old and ugly.

My mare got very wide and the old saddle didn't fit and nothing I tried on her seemed to fit her. I was forced to learn about saddles because the run of the mill advice wasn't working.

I don't think the women I know would make the saddle selections they do if their vets, ferriers, trainers and professionals in the industry were better educating their clients.

Jennifer

[mulefool]

Here's some answers to some of your original questions.

Do you keep track of your saddles after sale?

I don't actually do anything specific to do that, but I usually keep track because they belong to good customers I am seeing for other items.

Do you offer to resell your saddles for the customer if they decide to sell? (This could satisfy the buy-it-now customer)

Yes I do. I don't normally carry anything on consignment but will sell one for a customer. I generally have a few people in mind that would be interested in one already so it works pretty good.

Do you know the resale value of your saddles?

Since I don't sell anything other than my own I don't actually have that good of an idea of the market as I should I guess. I have usually been able to get at least what they originally paid for it, unless it's one of the really old ones, so they feel pretty happy with that.

Are you interested in increasing market share or are you too busy for comfort now? At this point in time I have cut way back on custom saddles. I only do maybe 2 or 3 a year. I don't advertise them at all. I do advertise and promote the main part of my business which is pack saddles and related gear. www.horseandmulegear.com. I am busier than I really want to be, but I'd like to make more money. Wouldn't we all?

Is your greatest interest the welfare of the horse or your income? Where is the balance? (You may not want to answer this one on a public forum) that's sort of difficult question in the sense of "which is more important world peace or the welfare of your children?" It's kind of all intertwined and if you are going out of business because you don't care about the income then you aren't going to be able to help the welfare of the horse.