festus Report post Posted February 10, 2011 I have a old saddle I am rebuilding that has a wade style tree. I need to raise the cantle height 2 inches. can anyone tell me how I would do that? Thanks for any help or experience anyone would be willing to share. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ct701996 Report post Posted March 2, 2011 if you try to make the cantle too much taller without the tree right there it will probably get floppy on the top, if you are completely rebuilding the saddle with a new seat cantle back and cantle filler you can just run those things up higher than you normally would, but remeber the taller you make the leather go up the more the leather will want to bend at the top of the cantle, Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
spur2009 Report post Posted March 3, 2011 I agree, you cannot make the cantle much higher without increasing the height of the cantle on the tree. This is no problem. After removing leather build up the cantle on tree with bondo. After this hardens you can file and sand to proper shape and thickness. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JRedding Report post Posted March 4, 2011 I agree, you cannot make the cantle much higher without increasing the height of the cantle on the tree. This is no problem. After removing leather build up the cantle on tree with bondo. After this hardens you can file and sand to proper shape and thickness. How do you intend to adhere the bondo portion of this to the narrow top edge of the cantle and not have it separate ? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
spur2009 Report post Posted March 4, 2011 How do you intend to adhere the bondo portion of this to the narrow top edge of the cantle and not have it separate ? This is simply done. The Bondo is formed from the seat and cantle back up past the cantle edge that you want to increase the height of. The areas where the bondo is placed in the seat section of the tree and on the bottom edge of the cantle back should be sanded to a feather edge. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JRedding Report post Posted March 9, 2011 This is simply done. The Bondo is formed from the seat and cantle back up past the cantle edge that you want to increase the height of. The areas where the bondo is placed in the seat section of the tree and on the bottom edge of the cantle back should be sanded to a feather edge. I guess I need to rephrase my question, what attaches the bondo portion of this undertaking to the original saddle tree, it seems it would snap off fairly easy and be a floating loose piece of bondo hovering on top of the original cantle held in place only by the leather of the seat and cantle back.??? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Norwegian Report post Posted March 9, 2011 I guess I need to rephrase my question, what attaches the bondo portion of this undertaking to the original saddle tree, it seems it would snap off fairly easy and be a floating loose piece of bondo hovering on top of the original cantle held in place only by the leather of the seat and cantle back.??? It stays there, just like on a car.. Mix it right, put it on, shape it, let it dry, and sand it.. This is a tree that was "rebuilt/changed".. It was originally covered with rawhide, but ended up re-covered in "plastic".. It's now used as a hobby/trail saddle.. Hope this helps some.. Rik Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
oldtimer Report post Posted March 9, 2011 I guess I need to rephrase my question, what attaches the bondo portion of this undertaking to the original saddle tree, it seems it would snap off fairly easy and be a floating loose piece of bondo hovering on top of the original cantle held in place only by the leather of the seat and cantle back.??? You could put in screws on the edge of the cantle to form a kind of "reebars" for the bondo. That would keep the bondo from gcoming loose. I did that on a Ralide tree many years ago and it is still tight. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JRedding Report post Posted March 11, 2011 Thanks for all the effort it took to explain this to me, I've never worked the stuff and was interested how it was done and what the lasting results would be of a modification like this. Thanks again Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AndyKnight Report post Posted March 11, 2011 It would be very difficult to make a cantle taller, do the leather work necessary and keep it economically viable. new cantle cover, new seat, new cantle binding Probably new ground work. Better off to start from scratch. IMHO Whoever built that tree in the pics. wasn't shy about using knotty wood. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steve mason Report post Posted March 11, 2011 sorry guys, hope you don't take offence to this but there is one way to increase the cantle height 2" that will last over time and use, get a new tree made!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Norwegian Report post Posted March 11, 2011 It would be very difficult to make a cantle taller, do the leather work necessary and keep it economically viable. new cantle cover, new seat, new cantle binding Probably new ground work. Better off to start from scratch. IMHO Whoever built that tree in the pics. wasn't shy about using knotty wood. "Knotty"? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AndyKnight Report post Posted March 11, 2011 sorry guys, hope you don't take offence to this but there is one way to increase the cantle height 2" that will last over time and use, get a new tree made!!! Steve is 100 % correct. that was what I wanted to say... Knotty wood... wood with knots in it which will compromise the strength of the tree. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Norwegian Report post Posted March 11, 2011 (edited) Steve is 100 % correct. that was what I wanted to say... Knotty wood... wood with knots in it which will compromise the strength of the tree. Festus, sorry for hi-jacking your thread, but maybe you've already found your answers..? AndyKnight, since you are commenting on one of my first saddles/trees (I have not built the tree) that is used on the farm as a "hobby saddle", what knots are you reffering to? These? They are hardly not enough to compromise the strength of the tree, are they? The other marks on the (unused) tree are, as you surely know, miscolorings from the nails that were used to attach the original rawhide.. I'm sure you guys are interested in selling a new tree, but why not instead discuss the reason for putting on a high cantle on the "wade saddles"? It's mostly for looks, right? Maybe comfort? I'd say that a good and secure rider doesn't need a high cantle to feel secure in the saddle.. Hope you don't mind me picking on what you are writing, I just enjoy a discussion.. Rik Edited March 11, 2011 by Norwegian Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steve mason Report post Posted March 11, 2011 Festus, sorry for hi-jacking your thread, but maybe you've already found your answers..? AndyKnight, since you are commenting on one of my first saddles/trees (I have not built the tree) that is used on the farm as a "hobby saddle", what knots are you reffering to? These? They are hardly not enough to compromise the strength of the tree, are they? The other marks on the (unused) tree are, as you surely know, miscolorings from the nails that were used to attach the original rawhide.. I'm sure you guys are interested in selling a new tree, but why not instead discuss the reason for putting on a high cantle on the "wade saddles"? It's mostly for looks, right? Maybe comfort? I'd say that a good and secure rider doesn't need a high cantle to feel secure in the saddle.. Hope you don't mind me picking on what you are writing, I just enjoy a discussion.. Rik As far as I know Andy does not sell the trees he makes, they are for his own use, I am a saddle maker so I am not trying to sell trees. I was trying to say that raising a cantle 2" is not a practical thing to do, there is no way that the bondo will stay in place if you get is any kind of a wreck, and you will need to put in new ground work, and a new top seat and cantle back and cantle bind, this is just not a practical thing to do, the cost of these repairs are not worth it, since you will end up with an inferior product. It just does not make sense to do this. In regards to your comments about "wade saddles" they can have any cantle height or width you would like to order, the cantle and swell style have nothing do with each other. Some customers will order a cantle for looks, comfort or whatever reason they have for wanting a cantle high or low, the reasons are their own and every customer will have his own reason for why he likes his cantle the way he likes it, personal preferance. this thread has gone a long ways from where it started, back the topic. to raise a cantle 2",,, don't do it IMO. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Norwegian Report post Posted March 12, 2011 this thread has gone a long ways from where it started, back the topic. to raise a cantle 2",,, don't do it IMO. Ok, let's just say YOU are right, get a new tree, and kill this thread.. Or.. I do realise that I might seem to be disrespectful in this thread. But, I do have the deepest respect for you guys! Your knowledge and craftmanship is something I, as a beginner, only can wish and hope for in the future. But, please, your answers might seem easy to you experienced guys, but for me as a novice in saddle making, and the guy who started this thread (since he asked about how to raise the cantle, I suppose he is a beginner too) it might not be that easy.. I might be new in saddle making, but I'm not new when it comes to horses.. We "breed" and sell race horses to some of the top trainers here.. I know horses. Their physical strenghts and weakneses, how different one horse can be from another, etc.. That, and the fact that I'm a beginner in saddle making, might make it easier for me to see the problems with a new tree instead of raising the cantle for a beginner.. If it's a crappy saddle, sure, throw it away or practise on it, and start over with a new tree. But, let's assume this: The saddle in question really fits one or more of the owners horses. It might be a high quality tree under the leather, but the owner would like some changes on it anyway.. As a BEGINNER here, it might actually seem easier to change the ground, seat and cantle, instead of starting over with a new tree. Why? Because if you don't mess too much with the seat etc you will still have a pretty good saddle that fits the horse! Fitting a new tree/saddle WELL to the horse might be easy for you that are more experienced, but maybe not for a beginner. And two inches of cantle top is not a vital part of the saddle, IF it will break later, it's not the end of the world. And two inches of bondo, put on top of the cantle the right way, on a good quality tree is probably far better than a new tree(of what quality?) that might not fit the horse and rider as good as the old one.. Ok, I'm done with my bla bla bla.. Rik Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rod and Denise Nikkel Report post Posted March 13, 2011 Knotty wood... wood with knots in it which will compromise the strength of the tree. We agree with Andy. Any knots are a weak spot in wood, and knots the size you have pictured do compromise the strength of the tree. Those are what we cut out of the wood and burn as scrap while using the solid pieces to build our trees. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
spur2009 Report post Posted March 16, 2011 I did the first post on using bondo. It works, however, I agree that the cost and labor of doing the entire project is damn high and you would be better off as noted previously posted to just order a new tree and start from scratch. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
