Does This Saddle Look Assymetrical?

[silverdollarmagic]

I just paid $270 for this 50 year old saddle. Seller used it with no problems, then sold the horse she bought it for.

[silverdollarmagic]

Looking at the pics again, it looks like the cantle and horn are offset, and that the swell on the right side was molded a bit off, and not necessarily a problem with the tree itself. Am I right? Or am I fooling myself?

ETA: The fleece is somewhat new so it is thick looking. It's supposedly real and not synthetic fleece.

Edited February 18, 2011 by silverdollarmagic

[Luke Hatley]

Looks crooked to me...........

[silverdollarmagic]

Looks crooked to me...........

Do you think the tree is crooked or just the cantle and horn? I can handle some flaws in the cosmetic appearance since the saddle was hand made, but of course not a crooked tree. That goes without saying. I don't have the saddle yet but am starting to believe I will end up opening a paypal claim for a defective item. I really am sick over this. $270 might not seem like a lot of money to some, but as a vintage saddle lover hoping to have scored a good deal, it is like a million dollars to me.

[Luke Hatley]

get you're $$$$$ back ..Imagim if you had the saddle and wanted to sell it

I don't think anyone would be happy to buy it from you.

[Denise]

When you get the saddle do every test in the book to see if you can get any squeaks, movement etc. out of the tree. In 50 years a lot of things can happen to a saddle, and there are a lot of broken trees out here being ridden by people who don't know enough to realize that they are broken. We had one sent to us that was in two pieces, broken across both bars. It had been taken in to repair some minor cosmetic things and the saddle maker quickly noticed that the tree was badly broken. He phoned the owners up and told them, to which they replied, "It's been working just fine." They called him back a bit later and said "Come to think of it, last time I roped something, my mare did go to bucking." Some people just don't know...

[horsewreck]

As far off as the cantle to swells are to each other the bars can't be in alined properly to each other, I would not put that saddle on a horse period....;. Jeff

[Denise]

I can handle some flaws in the cosmetic appearance since the saddle was hand made

Just a quick response to this comment. While there are some badly made hand made saddles out there, just because something is hand made doesn't mean it has to have flaws. In fact, most hand made saddles are far better than the vast majority of production saddles. One of the maker's signature line here is "Make it look hand made, not home made." If you take a peak through the Saddle and Tack Makers Gallery you will see what I mean.

[silverdollarmagic]

Thank you all for letting me know what I already suspected. Just needed to know I wasn't in the wrong for thinking of asking for my money back and for clarifying that there is indeed something wrong with the saddle. I can assure all of you that saddle will not touch my horses' back. I will e-mail the seller now and tell her the saddle will be coming back to her and I would like a full refund. i

ETA: When I said I could handle some flaws, I didn't mean obvious ones such as crookedness. I just meant a slight flaw. Nothing that would compromise th looks and soundness of the saddle. I had one hand made and it was perfect, but my horse outgrew it. I had no problem selling it.

Edited February 18, 2011 by silverdollarmagic

[silverdollarmagic]

Seller begged me to try it out. Said she rode in it for 6 months with no problems. Could be that her horse is very stoic but I happen to have a high strung mare who will let me know in no uncertain terms if she is uncomfortable. I have been seriously injured by a colt I was breaking because of a too narrow saddle. I will not take that chance again and the hubby says no way. I asked her to please just refund my money. Hoping I don't have to go through paypal.

[silverdollarmagic]

Seller refuses to refund my money. Says she had no problems & the horn is tight & the seat sits even. Guess I will be trying to sell it for parts if the leather is nice enough.

[buckeroo1]

PLEASE-E-E-E-E pursue getting your money back from PayPay and doing whatever is needed to notify eBay!!! I am a seller and buyer on eBay and truly believe in the "FEEDBACK" system that is in place. Most dealers work hard to keep a "100% positive" rating because that is their main sort of pedigree attesting to their products, service and integrity. Again....please do everything possible to get your money back, and file a claim. With all postings, I always give an accurate and honest description of the item......if you were'nt advised the saddle was "bent" or out of alignment.....YOU DO HAVE A LEGITIMATE CLAIM and should receive your money back (including shipping)!

[roo4u]

i dont see how that seat could possibly sit even with the cantle being as crooked as that...have you tried measuring each side to see how far off it is?

[silverdollarmagic]

I purchased the saddle from a seller who advertised with horseclicks. You can see in the ad below the seller guaranteed it is "safe and tight." I will get the saddle Tuesday and will take photos and send a copy of the ad to paypal. I will also give it a thorough once or twice over to see if it is as crooked as it looks in the photos.

When I e-mailed her a second time giving her a chance before I open a dispute with paypal, she stated "the tree is not crooked or broken. I had it checked by a saddle shop and checked it myself."

Since she refuses to work with me, I am most def. going to go through paypal to get a refund. The more I look at the pics, the more upset I become. If for some reason paypal does not get my money back I am stuck with a saddle I can't even use. Other than the crookedness, it is a decent looking saddle IMO.

http://www.horseclic...saddles/5b37h2/

Edited February 20, 2011 by silverdollarmagic

[Denise]

Angles on pictures can make things look off that aren't and straight that aren't. I would suggest you wait till you get the saddle and check it out really well before you make any more moves.

[silverdollarmagic]

Angles on pictures can make things look off that aren't and straight that aren't. I would suggest you wait till you get the saddle and check it out really well before you make any more moves.

This is true. I'm just really in panic mode here just from looking at the photos. I will check it over first and if I have any doubt, will take it to the local saddle shop for another set of eyes and hands to check it for me. Might do that anyway. She swears there was absolutely no problems with it and that she put about 150 hours of riding time on it. Said she wouldn't think of selling it if it fit the horse she has now. Whether it turns out to be perfectly safe and sound, or as crooked as it looks in the photos, I am still on the hunt for a good vintage western saddle. If it checks out "bad" then I will take action.

Thank you Denise for calming me down LOL!

[mulefool]

"She said she wouldn't think of selling it if it fit thehorse she has now." Maybe it doesn't fit because it's CROOKED. but since it's on it's way wait til you get it and then document the crookedness in some way or get a professional to evaluate it for you. Hopefully it's just the angle in the pics, but it sure looks off to me. Good luck with it. Chris

[silverdollarmagic]

"She said she wouldn't think of selling it if it fit thehorse she has now." Maybe it doesn't fit because it's CROOKED. but since it's on it's way wait til you get it and then document the crookedness in some way or get a professional to evaluate it for you. Hopefully it's just the angle in the pics, but it sure looks off to me. Good luck with it. Chris

It actually occured to me that the pics of the saddle on the horse, the one the saddle is on in the pics, were taken with a tush cushion. This has been quite frustrating. Either way, I probably won't keep it because of the angle of the seat itself. I have a gaited horse and need my legs to be under me & relaxed. This saddle might put them forward, causing her & me to work harder to keep her in a proper gait.

[Saddlebag]

From what I am seeing, the horn is a little off. If it's tight then it's a cosmetic issue. As for the cantle I'm not seeing a problem there either. You can't go by the cheyenne rool and it's just leather folded and fitted to the curve of the seat. They are often not quite perfect.

[joe59]

It is hard to tell from the pictures but the fleece does not appear to be real. Also did you inquire about the tree? Is it a rawhide covered, fiber glass or raliade (plastic) ? Also, the saddle may be "hand made" but it does not look to be anything more than "hand assembled". In my humble opinion, judging by the style and the little I can see in the pictures, the saddle does not look to be fifty years old. I could be wrong, but the screw in conchos did not come into style until the seventies. The horn may have been replaced as was the practice when dalley roping became popular but it does not appear to be the style of fifty years ago. The stitch length on the Chyenne roll appears to be more along the lines of mass produced saddles of the very late sixties and seventies. More pictures of the saddle, may help to determine the age. Compare it to pictures from old saddle catalogs from the fifties through the eighties.

JOE

[Denise]

The posts where silverdollarmagic showed the condition of the tree when she got it must have been posted during the 12 hours lost with the server switch over. It was a wood/rawhide tree and it was obviously broken. The seller refunded her the money for the saddle. I hope she will repost the pictures so we can see what she did when it came to her.

Saddlebag, when you look at the angle of the rim of the cantle itself it slants upwards toward the right while the fork is straight or even slanting slightly downwards towards the right. However, the angle at which pictures are taken can really distort how things appear to be. Even when looking at something with our own eyes, there is so much optical illusion that we often don't "see straight". So it is pretty tough to make final decisions based on pictures. Seeing the real thing often makes things very obvious, as in this case.

[silverdollarmagic]

The posts where silverdollarmagic showed the condition of the tree when she got it must have been posted during the 12 hours lost with the server switch over. It was a wood/rawhide tree and it was obviously broken. The seller refunded her the money for the saddle. I hope she will repost the pictures so we can see what she did when it came to her.

Saddlebag, when you look at the angle of the rim of the cantle itself it slants upwards toward the right while the fork is straight or even slanting slightly downwards towards the right. However, the angle at which pictures are taken can really distort how things appear to be. Even when looking at something with our own eyes, there is so much optical illusion that we often don't "see straight". So it is pretty tough to make final decisions based on pictures. Seeing the real thing often makes things very obvious, as in this case.

I wondered what happened to those photos, so here they are again. I took the fenders off because they are pretty nice actually. Nice thick leather. In good shape:

[gothcowboy]

I wondered what happened to those photos, so here they are again. I took the fenders off because they are pretty nice actually. Nice thick leather. In good shape:

That wood screw in the tree looks like it might be right in the middle of a crack. It's in an odd place. It might just be the photo, but the tree itself looks suspect. Also, if that wood screw is in a crack, it's just making it worse (or caused it), and it could help explain why there's some warping going on. That telltale wood screw might explain why it was "for sale." It doesn't look safe or sound, but it might only be I can't get enough perspective from the closeup. (But who puts wood screws right in a crack?)

I had a colt saddle - some unmarked production saddle from the 50s - with nice thick leather and a boogered rawhide covered tree. I ended up selling it as a decoration. Not safe at any speed, and probably wasn't very comfortable for the horse. There are lots of sound colt saddles out there, and a lot of them are production saddles. Production isn't necessarily bad. But even custom stuff is bad if it's broken.