Taking Money Away From The Small Guy

[reddevil76]

That is why I never mail order certain items like leather, and shoes. What you need to do is find a shop that has a sales person that will work with you, that you can email a pic to or that will understand exactly what you are expecting to get. and who you can ask for each time you call. I have a Tandy down the road from me in Fabulous Las Vegas, so I can pick out what I may need,sorry that you do not have the same opportunity to do so yourself. I am actually fairly surprised that you don't have better access to leather with your location considering how many leather goods are made that way.

When I was heavy into the gun parts a number of years ago I found a company that had a salesman that hit it off with me. He would call with specials on military surplus items that they had, and he would give me the no BS answer when I asked about condition, It they were dented, or dinged he told me. I still bought alot from him because I knew exactly what I was going to get. After awhile he knew what I liked, and he would call if something came in that might interest me. Over the years we developed a good business relationship.

Don't give up, and that scrap leather has lots of uses. Try making some sandals, and use it for the soles. It could also be used for stacked handles, or utility items like ax sheaths, work cuffs, and other things that don't have to be pretty, just work.

Hi Big Gun, in Asia, there are alot of leather products made here, except Singapore. I just happen to be in the one Asian country where hand craft skills aren't particularly held in high regard. Our people at the top aims to be the education hub, aviation hub, animation hub, blah blah blah... but traditional skills like these... very very rare.

If you talk about professional leather workers, there is one new workshop opening this Thursday (tomorrow). Making it a total of 3 workshops, in a population of 6.5 million.

I would love to order leather from Asia, but so far I have not found one single company that does mail order for hobbyists. The leather companies I've found all only wants to do corporate business.

[lazybum]

Hi reddevil

Sorry to hear about the bad purchase. I share your frustration of doing leatherwork in Singapore. I just happened to be talking to my friend's father who paints as a hobby the other day. He was musing with me how everyone here is so focused on pursuing professions that the arts and the spiritual satisfaction that can be gained from practicing them are so often neglected.

Anyway ive ordered some leather from springfield before and they are generally true to their descriptions. Some holes, spots and blemishes here and there but largely usable for the top grade sides. Perhaps what you can try, if you haven't, is to ask (politely of course) whoever that is attending to you to send you hides that are generally clean, explaining to them that you absolutely have little to no use for imperfect leather.

I would also avoid buying the lower grade hides. Its already risky enough to order through mail, ordering the economy sides will likely compound the chance of getting bad hides!

Besides, since the shipping cost is so high, its probably more worth it to order something that has use for every ounce!

Ive just placed an order for some W&C leather. Will let you know how they fare when they arrive.

Edited March 2, 2011 by lazybum

[reddevil76]

Hi reddevil

Sorry to hear about the bad purchase. I share your frustration of doing leatherwork in Singapore. I just happened to be talking to my friend's father who paints as a hobby the other day. He was musing with me how everyone here is so focused on pursuing professions that the arts and the spiritual satisfaction that can be gained from practicing them are so often neglected.

Anyway ive ordered some leather from springfield before and they are generally true to their descriptions. Some holes, spots and blemishes here and there but largely usable for the top grade sides. Perhaps what you can try, if you haven't, is to ask (politely of course) whoever that is attending to you to send you hides that are generally clean, explaining to them that you absolutely have little to no use for imperfect leather.

I would also avoid buying the lower grade hides. Its already risky enough to order through mail, ordering the economy sides will likely compound the chance of getting bad hides!

Besides, since the shipping cost is so high, its probably more worth it to order something that has use for every ounce!

Ive just placed an order for some W&C leather. Will let you know how they fare when they arrive.

Hey Kuroba, I actually enquired regarding the top grade tooling sides from Springfield. Funnily enough, they are cheaper than the B grade Hermann Oak I bought from them. Well, I guess the price difference is US vs Imported. Anyway, Jill has offered to send samples with the next order. I can't make another order (another risk) just to have samples. So I offered to cover the postage for samples. Waiting for them now.

Is that what you got from them the last round?

I'd be keen to drop by to see the W&C leather (if you don't mind) once you received it. Is it the standard, utility or special?

[lazybum]

Hey Kuroba, I actually enquired regarding the top grade tooling sides from Springfield. Funnily enough, they are cheaper than the B grade Hermann Oak I bought from them. Well, I guess the price difference is US vs Imported. Anyway, Jill has offered to send samples with the next order. I can't make another order (another risk) just to have samples. So I offered to cover the postage for samples. Waiting for them now.

Is that what you got from them the last round?

I'd be keen to drop by to see the W&C leather (if you don't mind) once you received it. Is it the standard, utility or special?

Yeap I bought the "top grade tooling side" for 2-3oz and "double shoulder #2" for 5-6oz". I bought 12 sq ft of both.

About a third of the 2-3oz was spotty, but the rest was generally clean. The shoulders were pretty even throughout, pretty clean but somewhat "veiny". The "veiny" texture was usually not obvious at all though. The shoulders were a bit dry and hard to cut.

My guess is the Hermann Oak is probably better(?) in terms of tannage, but the imported top grade tooling side is cleaner. The grade only refers to the cleanliness of the leather after all, so the pricing probably makes sense.

I ordered the overstocked utility. $100 for 1 side W&C. Ill be glad to send you some pics when its here, but my place is a little messy (my mum looks after people's kids) so taking visitors will be a bit inconvenient. If you really want to see it I can probably bring it downstairs for you to take a look though.

[reddevil76]

Yeap I bought the "top grade tooling side" for 2-3oz and "double shoulder #2" for 5-6oz". I bought 12 sq ft of both.

About a third of the 2-3oz was spotty, but the rest was generally clean. The shoulders were pretty even throughout, pretty clean but somewhat "veiny". The "veiny" texture was usually not obvious at all though. The shoulders were a bit dry and hard to cut.

My guess is the Hermann Oak is probably better(?) in terms of tannage, but the imported top grade tooling side is cleaner. The grade only refers to the cleanliness of the leather after all, so the pricing probably makes sense.

I ordered the overstocked utility. $100 for 1 side W&C. Ill be glad to send you some pics when its here, but my place is a little messy (my mum looks after people's kids) so taking visitors will be a bit inconvenient. If you really want to see it I can probably bring it downstairs for you to take a look though.

Trust me, I know all about cramp conditions and such. My relatives in Malaysia says we Singaporeans are funny, we don't have our neighbours over unless on special occasions. But then again, they have never tried living in the "boxes" we do that we paid $800K for!

Pics are like looking at them over the internet. If you don't mind, I'd just take a peek from the corridor so you don't have to lug it downstairs. I'd be very afraid that you'd dirty it in the process and I'd feel guilty about that.

Are you interested to see the Hermann Oak?

[cem]

When making a wallet for example, it might just need 2 sq foot of leather. But then, there will wastage, or worse, mistakes. On top of that, for the entire side, not every inch is usable, especially when the defects are in inconvenient places. With all these adding up, if we can save on shipping, we try. If it means a little wait for the supplier, it might just be worth it. Afterall, it would also be cheaper to return the leather in the event of a problem.

That said, Springfield Leather has been treating me right and I would recommend them if you do need to go overseas like me.

How much is it (approx) to ship a side from US to Oz? It cost me $155 to ship 4 light weight sides. 2 in 4-5 oz, and 2 in 3-4 oz.

I've used Springfield for tools and such and have been very happy with their service but it's good hear a recommendation that they are good for leather as well, I haven't priced the sides yet to Oz I use heavier oz so I expect it will be about what you payed or a bit more.

That's what I have work out though whether it's more cost effective to order from overseas or just order from the Sydney supplier once the shipping cost is factored in. Also I'm not sure if I'm just getting carried away with the Herman Oak, Wickett & Craig thing at the moment because that is what alot of members use here. The leather I'm using at the moment might be perfectly fine but until I try the others I don't know if I'm missing out on some quality aspects or not. It's very frustrating to say the least I spend too much time searching for supplies rather than doing actual leatherwork but then I should be used to it as everything else I've been interested in over the years I've had the same problem Perth just isn't a big market.

[reddevil76]

I've used Springfield for tools and such and have been very happy with their service but it's good hear a recommendation that they are good for leather as well, I haven't priced the sides yet to Oz I use heavier oz so I expect it will be about what you payed or a bit more.

That's what I have work out though whether it's more cost effective to order from overseas or just order from the Sydney supplier once the shipping cost is factored in. Also I'm not sure if I'm just getting carried away with the Herman Oak, Wickett & Craig thing at the moment because that is what alot of members use here. The leather I'm using at the moment might be perfectly fine but until I try the others I don't know if I'm missing out on some quality aspects or not. It's very frustrating to say the least I spend too much time searching for supplies rather than doing actual leatherwork but then I should be used to it as everything else I've been interested in over the years I've had the same problem Perth just isn't a big market.

Spot on. I find myself doing everything other than leatherwork.

Anyway, after I went to post something on TLF's facebook page, the customer service manager emailed me. We are working out a resolution now.

I hope to eventually settle down on a couple of good suppliers that will cover tools and supplies, and then just focus on making stuff.

[lazybum]

Trust me, I know all about cramp conditions and such. My relatives in Malaysia says we Singaporeans are funny, we don't have our neighbours over unless on special occasions. But then again, they have never tried living in the "boxes" we do that we paid $800K for!

Pics are like looking at them over the internet. If you don't mind, I'd just take a peek from the corridor so you don't have to lug it downstairs. I'd be very afraid that you'd dirty it in the process and I'd feel guilty about that.

Are you interested to see the Hermann Oak?

Ok ill let you know again when it arrives

[JJLeatherworks]

If I bought a $2 a s/f side, I wouldn't expect ANY part of it worth more than $2 a s/f. If a section had a 4 s/f section that was worth $10 a s/f it would stand to reason that it would be cut out and sold as a shoulder, back, bend or whatever at $10 a s/f. $2 x 20 s/f = $40. $10 x 4 s/f + $2 x 16 s/f =$72.

As for Tandy, it is geared for hobbyists and part time leather workers. They are everywhere with retail storefronts; whereas places like Springfield, W/C etc. are usually only in one location with the retail storefront only a small part of the total sales. The overhead of having many stores is picked up in the prices for the convenience of the consumer. Because I have three Tandy stores within 50 miles of me I can go and pick though the leather. A lot of what we make uses small pieces of leather and the scrap bin at one store has some top quality leather from a local luggage company. Some of the scrap leather is better than what the store is selling.

I can understand the frustration, but when you are buying something as variable as leather and you are getting it mail order, the piece on the top is what you are getting. If you have a working relationship with a company they might pick through it for you. However, just as in the store where the buyer is picking though it, eventually only the poorer pieces are left. When the manager decides that there is not enough good pieces left for that grade, they become the sales items. I would not expect that a top quality side to have made it all the way down the chain and have not been picked up. (Same thing with the scrap bin, when they get a new shipment, the selection is good, after a while not so good and sometimes not worth the scrap price.)

Edited March 3, 2011 by JJLeatherworks

[Crimson]

Hi Reddevil,

I once ordered a batch of Craftsman oak tooling sides (2-3 oz) from Tandy and most of them are useable and clean. I think it all voice down to luck when making leather purchase online. All the best in your talk with the Tandy manager, I do hope they can provide a satisfactory resolution to your issue. Lastly, dont give up on this hobby, I think you do great wallet.

Regards,

Boon