a question about trees for pleasure saddles

[Traveller]

Hello,

I just discovered your forum this morning and would like to start by thanking all of you very accomplished saddlemakers for taking the time to share your knowledge. It's much appreciated!

I have a wide appaloosa gelding (mostly quarter horse) that has proven very difficult to fit. A custom saddle isn't on the immediate horizon due to other financial considerations in my life so a production saddle is all that's available to me right now (besides, I'd need something to ride in while waiting for a custom saddle anyway!).

A tack store owner recently told me that the trees in western pleasure saddles are made in such a way that the horse keeps its back flat and can't round up so that their movement stays flat. Could you please tell me if that's true? (Given Bruce Johnson's story about the tack store employee saying semi-QH trees are for horses that are only semi-QH, I'm not so sure anymore!) I've finally learned how to get my gelding to work off his hind end and become truly "through" so a saddle that interferes with that ability would of course not suit me at all.

I'm currently considering a Billy Cook saddle (one made in Greenville, and probably within the past 5 years) that the owner says is a "show saddle." It doesn't have much silver on it so I can only assume that that means it's a western pleasure saddle. I haven't actually seen the saddle yet so don't know whether the tree is wood or something else, though I'll check that out once I get it from her tomorrow.

Thank you very much.

Joanne

[jwwright]

Hi Joanne..........I sure can't comment on the Billy Cook saddle you are considering....no one could do so accurately without seeing the saddle on your horse. But, I will say that the tack store person that gave you the information you mentioned, doesn't know what they are talking about. My best advice, in light of the fact you state that a hand made saddle is not in the cards at the moment, is to find someone you trust, who understands both the form to function of a saddle as well as the horsemanship involved, and get them to help you find a suitable saddle to purchase. Good luck to you, JW.

[Traveller]

Thanks, JW. I'm hoping to get a handmade saddle in the not-too-distant future but until then am relegated to the land o' the pre-made.

I have someone locally who helps me determine whether the saddles I'm trying out fit my horse so fortunately I have some support in that regard, but after hearing that all western pleasure saddle trees would prohibit my horse from raising up his back, I was a bit concerned about picking those saddles up even just to try.

Thanks again!

[bruce johnson]

Joanne,

I agree with JW, and also would say that most production trees have less rock than more, and that leaves some space for the horse to "round up into". I see more production trees with less rock and more bridging problems. Some of us were taught that you need some space for the horse to round up into for arena performance saddles. Just how much is the big question and no real answers seem to exist right now. I have kind of changed my thoughts on this over the last couple of years, due in part to discussions on questions like yours. One recent comment shared with me in regards to reining horses- "Do you really need that space for for them to round up into for the 1-2 seconds of sliding stop at the sacrifice of the tree bridging for the 20 seconds of figure eights and run downs, the 5 seconds of the spin, or the 20 minutes of long trot warming up? . I don't know that answer, but have my suspicion. Horses seem to do a lot more than just the one maneuver or particular way of going we focus on.

[Traveller]

So Bruce, when you say a tree has more or less "rock," does that mean it has more or less of a dip in the middle of the saddle? So a saddle that has less rock will be more horizontal (if you know what I mean) than one with more rock.

Is that right?

I assume any tree that rocks back-to-front when it sits on a horse is not good, yes?

Thanks again for considering my newbie question!

Edited May 22, 2008 by Traveller

[bruce johnson]

Joanne,

Yes, your idea of rock is correct. Less rock means the bars will be flatter. And also any tree that really does rock on the horse will be concentrating pressure in the middle and not distributing it across the whole span of the bars. That is a mostly a bad thing. On most saddles you can set them on a horse with no pad, and feel under the ends of the bars for any gapping. But there are other factors besides rock (bar patterns and "flare") that can affect that too. I was taught about 30 years to lay an handkerchief under the middle of the saddle again with no pad and cinch it down. If you can easily pull it out, there is some degree of bridging. Problem is determining how much and if it is significant??

[Traveller]

Yes, I'd heard about that handkerchief test, too. The fellow who is currently helping me determine saddle fit has suggested that, if there's a bit of a bridge in the middle of the saddle (is that whole area called the "rock"? I have so much to learn!) that I could fold a hand towel in half to fill it up, at least on a temporary basis. My horse has a slight dip in his back that we're assuming will lessen as he continues to work. He's just 7 years old and has started working correctly from his hind end relatively recently (because I've only just learned how to get him to do this!).

I'm glad to hear that not all pleasure saddles are built to keep horse's backs down -- I was feeling really sorry for all the pleasure horses out there!