Ground Seats

[BuckhornBrand]

I'm starting my third saddle and was going to put an all leather ground seat in it as I did the first two. The only source I've found on all leather ground seats have been the Stohlman series of books. These saddles are for all day ranch work. I bought the Jeremiah Watt Saddlemaking DVD and really enjoyed his discussion about seats and seat shapes. I was wanting to get some input about how other people put in leather ground seats and what your views were on the Stohlman's methods.

Thanks in advance for your help, Chuck

[greg gomersall]

I'm starting my third saddle and was going to put an all leather ground seat in it as I did the first two. The only source I've found on all leather ground seats have been the Stohlman series of books. These saddles are for all day ranch work. I bought the Jeremiah Watt Saddlemaking DVD and really enjoyed his discussion about seats and seat shapes. I was wanting to get some input about how other people put in leather ground seats and what your views were on the Stohlman's methods.

Thanks in advance for your help, Chuck

I do not like Stohlman's method for an all leather seat because you need to spike the leather forward as well as sideways to get tension both ways to prevent this style of groundseat from collasping at some point in the future. Greg

[BuckhornBrand]

Greg,

were you refering to drawspiking the leather in both directions or nailing at sides and front, back to keep tension. I was hoping to get some discussion going among the saddlemakers here as I find I learn more information and quicker on this forum than anywhere else. It's also great to here everyones reasons as to why they do it a certain way.

Thanks again for your help Greg, Chuck

[mulefool]

I had used metal strainer plates for years . I wanted to learn to build an all leather ground seat and the only place I knew were instructions was the Stohlman book. This was maybe 6-7 years ago, maybe more. I have the first saddle I built that way and it's been ridden quite a bit and so far it's held up well. I have several others out there I built that way that get quite a bit of use and so far no complaints. But I'm not completely happy with doing it that way and would love to hear how others do it. At first I thought that plug for the handhole was a good idea but I spend more time than I want cleaning that area up and getting it to look right on the inside of the hole after I pull the plug out. I'm also not crazy about cutting the stirrup leather slots and would rather use bar risers. I've been wanting to get the Harwood video and was wondering if he spends much time talking about the ground seat.

[BuckhornBrand]

Mulefool,

I agree with what you said on both accounts. I was afraid that cutting so much out of the ground seat for the stirrup slots would cause you to lose a lot of the strength you've built into the seat. After using the hand hole plug method I felt like it may be easier to run the leather all the way to the back of the swells and cut the hand hole out when you were finished. I didn't really like the way the hand hole looked after using the plug.

The first saddle I built with Stohlman's methods I've been riding almost daily for work for the past year now. I haven't had any problems but I only way 150 lbs- so I'm not much of a test for it.

Jeremiah's video shows how to use the tunnel method for the stirrup slots but with a tin seat.

I don't think I can convince my wife I need Harwood's video also.

I'm still scratching my head over this one. I have a lifetime of riding them, but not much experience building them. I need all the help I can get.

Thanks for your input, Chuck

[AndyKnight]

There is no way I have enough time to give a " how Andy does ground seats" i n a typed format.

I will give a couple of points.

I use stirrup leather plugs so the end product has a tunnel for leathers.

Use a heavy piece as the main "strainer "part. You may use a couple of fillers either side of the plug if you want. I generally don't.

Stretch it in with spikes. The end can go under the Mantle.

>make sure it is very tight all directions.

Cut the hand hole after it is complete.

If it is done right an all leather ground seat will be as firm as one with a tin plate for the life of the saddle.

I am not sure how Stolman did his ground seats .

My shop is only an hour or so away from where Stolmans used to live so I was privileged to be invited over there a few times.

[mulefool]

Thanks for responding Andy. I got to thinking it would be pretty hard to compleletely describe how a person does a ground seat with out spending a couple days at best on it, so just hitting a few points is probably best. I just got a couple questions of you don't mind. When you spike it tight I'm assuming that pulls it pretty flat across the channel. Do you do anything to the underside between the channel to put a curve in it?

I'm assuming Mantle is just a typo and you meant cantle. So am I understanding it correctly you pull the end of the first strainer peice under the cantle between the bars? so you would be cutting kind of a notch on each side so it can go from nailed to the top of the bar to then the underside of the cantle arch between the bars?

thanks

[AndyKnight]

Thanks for responding Andy. I got to thinking it would be pretty hard to compleletely describe how a person does a ground seat with out spending a couple days at best on it, so just hitting a few points is probably best. I just got a couple questions of you don't mind. When you spike it tight I'm assuming that pulls it pretty flat across the channel.Yes

Do you do anything to the underside between the channel to put a curve in it? NO

I'm assuming Mantle is just a typo and you meant cantle. So am I understanding it correctly you pull the end of the first strainer peice under the cantle between the bars? so you would be cutting kind of a notch on each side so it can go from nailed to the top of the bar to then the underside of the cantle arch between the bars? Yes

thanks

[BuckhornBrand]

Andy and Mulefool- Thanks so much for your advice. I'm pretty creative so a few pointers was all I really needed, and the ones Andy gave were great. The information (and patience) given to us amatures on this forum by those of you who do this for a living is priceless.

I'm sure I'll have more questions- Thanks again, Chuck

[AndyKnight]

when I started I used the "how to build a western saddle" by Lee Rice. in the back of the old braiding book..

Now with modern adhesives I only stretch (spike) the first "strainer" piece

fasten front and back first leaving about an inch gap at the center.

A heavy piece of neck leather is perfect for this. I love it when it has a little rawhide in the center!

I can't over emphasize the fact that it has to be tight.

Edited June 5, 2008 by AndyKnight

[mulefool]

thanks for your help Andy. You know I've got that book around here someplace. I had forgotten all about it.

[greg gomersall]

I was fortunate enough to have 2 of the world's premiere saddlemakers from the Calgary area show me thier methods of putting in all leather seats and as Andy said the bottom piece is the critical one. One used bar risers the other didn't. Nail the strainer piece under the Cantle gullet and then set 2 to 3 nails at the rear ( one in center and one to each side approx. one inch) of the fork below the horn. The stainer piece should be tight enough that when you push down hard on it just behind the stirrup slots you can barely get it to touch the tree bars. Too tight and the bow of the strainer will go right back to the cantle, too loose and you will have no bow over the stirrup slot area. When you feel the tension is right spike the seat tight from side to side starting at the back and work your way forward to just back of the stirrup slots, then spike the front corners in. After your next 2 or 3 layers are in make sure you let the seat dry COMPLETELY before cutting your handhole and if you did not build a tunnel you will have to cut your stirrup slots as well( I wait till I am ready to glue my seat on before I cut the stirrup slots). Hope this helps. Greg