First Attempt At Making A Pattern

[Guy W]

Hello,

I don't really have any idea on what I'm doing but I figured why not take a crack at some drawing (sorry I can't draw well). Am I on the right track here for designing my 1911 IWB holster pattern? I'm not even 100% sure how this will be assembled once cut out of leather. I assume you have a back piece of leather and a front piece, you make a sort of pocket in the middle for the gun, and then glue and stitch the sides together? Anyway if you can take a look and let me know if I'm on the right track, what I should change, and what not I'd really appreciate it.

~Guy

Edited August 27, 2011 by Guy W

[katsass]

Hello,

I don't really have any idea on what I'm doing but I figured why not take a crack at some drawing (sorry I can't draw well). Am I on the right track here for designing my 1911 IWB holster pattern? I'm not even 100% sure how this will be assembled once cut out of leather. I assume you have a back piece of leather and a front piece, you make a sort of pocket in the middle for the gun, and then glue and stitch the sides together? Anyway if you can take a look and let me know if I'm on the right track, what I should change, and what not I'd really appreciate it.

~Guy

OK Guy, you are on the right track. You make a front and a back piece ....... one, (the back piece) a mirror image of the other. (the design as drawn looks good) Determine 1/2 the thickness of the gun; add to that figure 1/2 the thickness of the leather used. You then draw your stitch line that distance from the outline of the gun already on your pattern. That will be your stitching line. You will also need to stitch around the 'wings' after they are glued together and dressed to a good shape and finish. Use a good quality of contact cement. Hope this gives you a bit of a hand ....from the grumpy old man. Mike

[TwinOaks]

Also, I'd suggest having a little more room between the gun and the rear tab. That way, the tab (belt loop attachment) isn't in the way of a firing grip. Remember, when assembled and worn, that little tab will be on the same plane as your belt, while the pistol will be somewhat "behind" it. When you get ready to attach the belt loops, remember to add a leather washer between the holster and the loops - the gap allows for the thickness of the pants. For your first holster, I recommend using T-nuts and machine screws from Lowes/HomeDepot. You might need to trim the little prongs so they don't over penetrate, but it's a good EASY way to do the attachment. You can use 6/32nds size just fine.

The pattern looks fine otherwise, just remember that you can remove leather, but not put it back. Cut a little on the large side of the line and trim later.

What are you planning for a finish?

[Guy W]

thanks for the replies i have a bunch of questions.

first, i can't really wrap my mind around the t-nut-screw thing. do you make the keeper belt loops, snaps and all seperate, put the t-nut through the holster and then screw through the inside snap to join the loop to the holster? I just can't seem to visualize it. do you have a picture or link to some instructions on how that would work?

regarding the stitch lines. my pistol is about 7/8" of an inch wide. I'm no sure how wide the leather will be, but I'll assume atleast 1/8". So 50% of that is 1/2". Do you mean that I will need my stitch lines about 1/2" away from the outline of the gun in my drawing? If that is the case I made this WAY too small. I don't even have 1/2" of room on the left hand side towards the bottom. Do I need to scale this all up a bunch or am I miss-understanding?

Allowing for the gap of the pants, is something I hadn't initially thought of. Thanks for that tip! What exactly do you mean by adding a leather washer? Is that something you buy or do you just mean I need to use a bit of leather to make a spacer or something?

I'm trying to figure out what kind of leather to use exactly, and how much I'd need for 1 or 2 holsters (I assume I'll ruin the first one). I was looking at the tandy website and 7/8oz tooling leather is what I was thinking but I can only buy like 20 sq feet and that will cost a lot of money and I assume way more than I need to fool around with and experiment. What exactly should I be looking for, how much, and where is the best place to get it without having to by tons of it?

hmmm... more questions I'm forgetting but I'll ask later, Thanks.

[TwinOaks]

thanks for the replies i have a bunch of questions.

first, i can't really wrap my mind around the t-nut-screw thing. do you make the keeper belt loops, snaps and all seperate, put the t-nut through the holster and then screw through the inside snap to join the loop to the holster? I just can't seem to visualize it. do you have a picture or link to some instructions on how that would work?

Yes, exactly. That's why I recommend the 6/32nds size- you don't have to reduce the size of the screw head, though you might need to shorten the threaded part so you don't poke out the back. Just don't add the post to the part of the snap that will be against the t-nut....mount through the snap.

regarding the stitch lines. my pistol is about 7/8" of an inch wide. I'm no sure how wide the leather will be, but I'll assume atleast 1/8". So 50% of that is 1/2". Do you mean that I will need my stitch lines about 1/2" away from the outline of the gun in my drawing? If that is the case I made this WAY too small. I don't even have 1/2" of room on the left hand side towards the bottom. Do I need to scale this all up a bunch or am I miss-understanding?

That measurement is a guide , and it varies a little from maker to maker, based on techniques......considering that Katsass is pretty dang good at this, it'd be best to alter the pattern to accommodate.

Allowing for the gap of the pants, is something I hadn't initially thought of. Thanks for that tip! What exactly do you mean by adding a leather washer? Is that something you buy or do you just mean I need to use a bit of leather to make a spacer or something?

Make a washer out of leather. Outside diameter matches the width of the loops, inside diameter matches the diameter of the t-nut. You can glue it to the back of the belt loop. I'll sometimes also make a flat edge on the 'bottom' of the washer where it sits on the belt.

I'm trying to figure out what kind of leather to use exactly, and how much I'd need for 1 or 2 holsters (I assume I'll ruin the first one). I was looking at the tandy website and 7/8oz tooling leather is what I was thinking but I can only buy like 20 sq feet and that will cost a lot of money and I assume way more than I need to fool around with and experiment. What exactly should I be looking for, how much, and where is the best place to get it without having to by tons of it?

For IWB, consider looking for 6-7oz --VEG TAN-- leather. It needs to be veg-tan. Tandy often runs specials on single shoulders. You could alternately contact Springfield Leather (ad banner top of page) and order from them - they cut leather so they may have some pieces in stock that you can use, or they can cut if for you. A single shoulder is a pretty good quantity of leather.....~5 sq. ft. click here. You can select different thicknesses, not just what's shown. 6-7 will be plenty thick enough for what you're wanting to do, without being 'too bulky'. If you need thicker pieces (washers) just double it up. You'll likely have a bit left over after making even two holsters....which is good- you'll need matching mag pouches. As a generalization, you could cut 12 x 12 pieces for the front and backs of holsters and have large pieces of scrap left over. Transfer your pattern to something sturdy like a cereal box and lay it out to minimize waste. ***DON'T FORGET TO FLIP THE PATTERN WHEN YOU LAYOUT THE BACK PIECE*** Also, you might want to trace/outline the patterns on the back of the leather

hmmm... more questions I'm forgetting but I'll ask later, Thanks.

Hope that helps. I typically don't quote large posts, but it's easier to answer multiple questions like that.

The other Mike.

P.S. Further exposition on stitch line spacing for holsters:

Ideally, when you bond the leather through glue and stitching, it becomes and behaves as "one piece of leather". Omitting the glue between the layers can result in the leather squeaking or creaking when you move. This happens when the layers of leather move against one another....it kind of sounds like a cricket. If you properly bond the leather this is avoided, but there is an additional effect (which is quite predictable): The bonded layers are stronger than the single layer. That means that it will be much more difficult to stretch. You are placing the stitch line along the profile of the pistol to prevent the leather from stretching any more than you intend. This will ensure that the holster maintains it's retention over a longer period. If the stitch line is too far away, then the single layers will stretch out over time, resulting in a loose holster that will be less attractive, and potentially dangerous.....not to mention expensive if the weapon falls out and gets dinged/scratched/gouged. Now, that you know why the stitch line is there, here's the why it is where it is: You'll effectively be building a holster that is flat. The leather NEEDS to be stretched into shape to allow the pistol to fit between the layers. Since you will be bonding the leather, you've eliminated much of the stretch of the rest of the holster, you need to make provisions for what's NOT bonded to stretch......hence the little bit of space outside the immediate profile of the pistol. The leather needs to be damp to allow proper stretching, and you might even add a plastic bag, or a couple of layers of saran wrap around the pistol to stretch it a few extra thousandths of an inch. As it dries, the leather will shrink back a little, so the extra space is warranted until you get the knack of making holsters. To get a good visual of what's going on with the leather, take two pieces of paper and make a 'holster' out of them. Glue or tape pieces together and get the fit as tight around the pistol as you can, trying to make the two sheets meet at the mid point of the pistol's width. Now, flatten them back out and draw the outline of the gun on them, and you'll see that where you put the 'stitch line' is actually outside the outline......and that's just with paper. The leather may stretch, but it's also MUCH thicker.

[jlaudio29]

This picture may help as far as what it should look like when youve spaced it right.

This is my Vmax style pattern for my Colt Officer. dont focus on the overall design it will confuse you if you dont know how the vmax is put together, just look at the gun and the spacing out to the stitch lines.

[TwinOaks]

Nice semi-tuckable design....nice and clean. I like it.

Guy, in the above pic, notice how much space there is under the grip of the pistol. There's lots of room to provide a full firing grip without having to make any adjustments. Being able to smoothly draw without fumbling the grip on the gun is a VERY IMPORTANT aspect of holster design.

[jlaudio29]

Another thing i noticed was that your belt in the drawing is in the wrong spot, you have it running through the buttons when infact it will be sitting below the buttons about 1/4 inch below.

Also i dont think it was mention in any other posts. but your gun is not "Cocked and Locked" you hammer is in the down position, you will need to put it in the cocked position and make sure the sweat guard covers that, as it stands right now it will now cover that area.

[Guy W]

wow thanks for all the great replies, I'll need to take some time and digest all of this. more questions on the way I'm sure.

thanks again,

~Guy

[Guy W]

for the belt loop keeper/straps what type of leather would you want to use? I assume something lighter and thiner than the 6-7oz that you make the main holster out of?

[Guy W]

jlaudio29 thanks for the picture that gives me a much better idea of what i need to shoot for in regards for spacing. and thanks for pointing on i didn't have the hammer cocked i totally missed that when I was drawing.

twinoaks thanks for taking the time to give all of this advice I really appreciate it. and thanks to everyone this forum has been a ton of help already.

Edited August 27, 2011 by Guy W

[evandailey]

For your first holster, I recommend using T-nuts and machine screws from Lowes/HomeDepot. You might need to trim the little prongs so they don't over penetrate, but it's a good EASY way to do the attachment. You can use 6/32nds size just fine.

I think you mean 6-32 screws and not 6/32nds right? 6/32nds is almost a 1/4" . 6-32 is a no. 6 screw with 32 threads per inch.

[TwinOaks]

I think you mean 6-32 screws and not 6/32nds right? 6/32nds is almost a 1/4" . 6-32 is a no. 6 screw with 32 threads per inch.

YEP!!!!

Silly mistake, thank you for catching it.

[Colt Hammerless]

A couple of things not mentioned yet. When you figure the stitch spacing for the top of the slide, you'll want to add about an 1/8th inch to that figure to allow room to mold a channel for the front site. To make this channel, you'll have a dowel taped to the slide that completely covers the front site and extends back along the slide to about the front of the ejection port. You can make this dowel out of a pencil or pen. For a perfect example of what I'm describing visit Adam's Leather Works website. This is local member Particle's site. On there he has a free video under the "How It's Made" section. It's also available on Youtube as a three part series under "How to Make a Leather Holster". The dowel I'm talking about is in the third video about thirty seconds in. The construction of the holster he's making is called an "envelope" style or "wraparound" style, which is different from the "pancake" style you're making, so don't let that part confuse you. He has one piece of leather that's folded over then cemented and stitched, whereas you'll have two pieces of leather cemented and stitced that will be flat as a pancake. Just didn't want you to watch that video and think you have the basic construction wrong.

Also, on your pattern it looks like you have the bottom of the leather ending right at the muzzle. The muzzle may stick out the bottom a little. This is fine if that's your preference. If you don't want the muzzle to end right at the bottom or stick out a little, you'll want to draw your pattern so that the leather extends about a 1/4 inch below the muzzle. As you wet mold, you'll simply press this part around the muzzle.

About leather. Tandy has their single shoulders on sale right now for $21.99. It's available in either 4/5 oz or 6/7 oz. You'll DEFFINITELY want the 6/7oz. You'll get enough leather to make about 4 or 5 holsters, plus maybe a couple of mag pouches. Many of us got started using these shoulders. It's not the best leather in the world, but makes great practice leather. Another great option is to call up Springfield Leather. There a sponsor here. You can get lower grade Hermann Oak for 5.99 a square foot and what's best of all is you don't have to buy a whole side or double shoulder. They'll cut you a piece the size you want. If you go this route you'll probably want to get about 5 to 7 sq. feet. They also charge actual shipping, so this is a fairly inexpensive route. You can also get it in different thicknesses. I'd recomend 7/8oz for a full sized 1911. Hermann Oak seems to hold the gun better than the Tandy leather. I don't know if it's because it shrinks slightly more after wet molding, or if it strethces less afterwards. The holsters I've made out of Tandy leather are slightly looser than the Hermann Oak. Still functional and safe mind you, but the holster made from HO will probably mantain it's retention longer.

Colt Hammerless

[Guy W]

thanks for the info colt hammerless, i watched those videos and it was helpful to see how some of the construction was done especially pointing out the sight channel.

as for the holster i want to make, i do want the muzzle end open. maybe this is a bad idea? but my thought was with an open muzzle end dirt/debris or whatever won't collect at the bottom of the holster. do you guys recommend such a design? also thanks for the info on the leather. I'll give the 7/8oz a try for my first one.

would you recommend using a thinner leather for the belt loops? maybe i should get some 6/7oz for those and i'm sure i could find some other projects for that type of leather also like mag pouches or a small folding knife pouch? or would you do it all in 7/8oz?

[TwinOaks]

The nice thing about 7/8 oz leather is that with just a little shaving, you end up with 6/7. So, for the first purchase, just get the thicker leather and shave/sand/skive a little bit off of it if you need thinner leather.

[Colt Hammerless]

There's no problem using 7/8 for the belt loops, or 6/7 for that matter. I've used both. TwinOaks makes a good point. You can sand the back of the leather to thin it if you want 6/7 oz. I'd certainly not buy a seperate piece of leather just to do the belt loops. Also, by using the same hide for the loops as the main holster body, your dye will match. Leather from one cow may come out a slightly different color than from a different cow, even if from the same tannery. A suttle difference, but you may notice it.

There's nothing wrong with an open bottom on an IWB. Actually the method I was describing does leave the bottom open for debris and fuzzies to fall out. It's all just aesthetic preference. On an OWB I like to have the leather folded over slightly on the bottom to give the muzzle some protection in case you fall in the mud or against a rock if you're out hiking or something. But with IWB, go with what looks best to you.

Colt Hammerless

[glockanator]

Not to hijack he post but wouldn't the top part of a pancake holster need to be larger in size the the bottom ?

[Guy W]

Not to hijack he post but wouldn't the top part of a pancake holster need to be larger in size the the bottom ?

I had wondered that too. From what I've looked at there are 2 things i've seen. One is a holster with a flat back the other is without. It would seem if you wanted to have a flat back you would need the front to be bigger so the pocket the firearm sits in doesn't buldge on the back. But i don't think it's necessary to have a flat back, not really sure.

[mlapaglia]

If you order the Tandy single shoulder make sure you tell them you want a 6/7 that is 6/7. This load of shoulders ranges from 4/5 to 8/9 and is marked as a 6/7. I got the info from my Tandy guy and when I went to the store he was right. I picked up 2 8/9 shoulders that were sold as 6/7 for the 21.99. It's not a bad deal as long as you can hand pick the leather or talk to them when you order and requests a 6/7 piece that is decent quality and really a 6/7. Tell them you are making holsters and they should be able to pick a nice one for you. Some of the ones I saw were really nasty.

Hope this makes sense.

[TwinOaks]

I had wondered that too. From what I've looked at there are 2 things i've seen. One is a holster with a flat back the other is without. It would seem if you wanted to have a flat back you would need the front to be bigger so the pocket the firearm sits in doesn't buldge on the back. But i don't think it's necessary to have a flat back, not really sure.

Right on the money, Guy. There's two types of pancake holster- one has a mostly flat back, with ALL the molding and stretching on the front piece; the other type utilizes some stretching and molding of the back piece.

The second type is easier to make, IMO.