New Elephant Holster - Dang You Kevin At Slc

[lonestar tactical]

Good day all. I have been a long time lurker but never felt like I had much to share in the way of information or work. It can be a little daunting with all the great work shown on this board. I am self taught so please keep that in mind. Nothing but printed books, online resources (I love this site) and a few youtube vids.

Now that I had the opp to talk to SLC and get some great customer service and prompt replies I had no choice but to pick up some hide from them. Hate when a company has great employees - it makes it so difficult to do business with anyone else lol. Side note - Kevin and Emma are a joy to deal with. Nothing but the best experience with working with both of these individuals. Picked up a nice piece of black elephant and black shark from SLC.

The Cage IWB/OWB holster for a 1911 Commander in elephant.

It is an OWB holster that was modified to also accomodate IWB carry.

The elephant is attached to 8/9 oz premium tooling side with Barge contact cement and hand stiched using nylon waxed line. Dried for complete 24 hours before working with it. Once it was dry I worked the edges and sanded for a perfect fit and finished edges with Fiebings edging. I then wet molded and then dyed with Fiebings USMC black (3 coats) and then applied neatsfoot oil to front and back. Dried for another 24 hours and then sealed with Fiebings Sheen.

Straps are hand cut with strap cutter - got tired of paying for straps that never seemed to be the same size order to order. I attached the elephant to the hide with Barge contact cement and then used eyelets to re-enforce connection points. Sanded and finished edges.

Same steps for the magazine carrier - I am going to be making this as my standard magazine carry method. Only difference is that I used chicago set screws to attach the sides. The leather seemed thick but I prefer it this way because it tends to grab a little better when pulling for a reload.

I have the shark holster currently drying and it is looking fantastic as well.

Hope you enjoy.

Be Safe,

Doc

Edited September 5, 2011 by lonestar tactical

[King's X]

Beautiful holster and yes Springfield can put you in a spot to buy something when the service is great!

[wizard of tragacanth]

Nice, clean look! Glad you came out of lurking mode.

And for the rest of you lurkers... olly olly oxen free!

Nick

[lonestar tactical]

Had a client request a duplicate set up for his 3.5 RIA 1911 with elephant

I encourage people to try out elephant hide.

Be safe,

Doc

[dickf]

You've definitely got a good start. I think you'll find that the stitch line will allow the holster to lose it's ability to retain the firearm over time because it doesn't follow the profile of the gun. You need to adjust it to come as close to the weapon as possible, while following the natural curves of the gun. Also, eliminate any angles and round everything off, especially the mag carrier, and I'd say you've got a nice looking pattern there.

Edited September 15, 2011 by dickf

[lonestar tactical]

You've definitely got a good start. I think you'll find that the stitch line will allow the holster to lose it's ability to retain the firearm over time because it doesn't follow the profile of the gun. You need to adjust it to come as close to the weapon as possible, while following the natural curves of the gun. Also, eliminate any angles and round everything off, especially the mag carrier, and I'd say you've got a nice looking pattern there.

Thanks for the feedback - always welcome.

To be honest with you I had my design tested for over a year before I started making them available to the public. Were talking some hard daily use by leo at the fed and state levels, as well as concealed handgun folks here in texas. The shape of the holster is unique to Lonestar Tactical. In my opinion, it is better to swim apart from the crowd then with it. The edges are well rounded to avoid anything that may poke/rub/dig into you - and as an OWB the shape works great.

The MagPac II is not rounded off as much because pockets are not round. I designed the shape of the MagPac II to take into account the pointy bottom end of the inside of our pockets. I did originally make it more round and it tended to shift more than I cared for.

I do have a more traditional shaped holsters comming out shortly. Something along the lines of an avenger type holster and also something similar to the Kirkpatrick IWB holster. Those will have more of what you mentioned.

Thanks again dickf and much thanks for the food for thought - if we don't adapt we get left behind

Be safe,

Doc

[dickf]

In my opinion, it is better to swim apart from the crowd then with it.

I agree, and with holstermaking, that can be difficult sometimes. Still, I think you should consider making the stitch line follow the profile of the gun. Your holster, when put to hard use, will lose it's retention over time due to that stitch line. They all get worn and looser, which is a fact of life, but doing everything you can to limit that fact is in your best interest. Look at other makers, especially the pro's like Del Fatti and Kanely - there is a reason the line is close, and it's not simply because it looks nice.

We all have to start somewhere, and there's no shame in reevaluating a product to refine it. Your customers will benefit in the long run.

My 2 cents.

Good luck.

[lonestar tactical]

I agree, and with holstermaking, that can be difficult sometimes. Still, I think you should consider making the stitch line follow the profile of the gun. Your holster, when put to hard use, will lose it's retention over time due to that stitch line. They all get worn and looser, which is a fact of life, but doing everything you can to limit that fact is in your best interest. Look at other makers, especially the pro's like Del Fatti and Kanely - there is a reason the line is close, and it's not simply because it looks nice.

We all have to start somewhere, and there's no shame in reevaluating a product to refine it. Your customers will benefit in the long run.

My 2 cents.

Good luck.

Hey buddy - I appreciate your advice. I have another order that I am working on this morning for a Colt Commander. Will implement the stitching as suggested and see how it works.

Not claiming to be a know it all as I know that there are many who have much more experience than I. No shame in reevaluating is right - clients make suggestions and I implement. No supervisor to explain changes or why I had to make a holster 3 times because I did not think it was perfect. Which is why I love what I do - I answer to only one person and thats the Mrs lol.

Thanks again and will post pictures of the implemented stitch lines.

Be safe dickf,

Doc

[lonestar tactical]

I agree, and with holstermaking, that can be difficult sometimes. Still, I think you should consider making the stitch line follow the profile of the gun. Your holster, when put to hard use, will lose it's retention over time due to that stitch line. They all get worn and looser, which is a fact of life, but doing everything you can to limit that fact is in your best interest. Look at other makers, especially the pro's like Del Fatti and Kanely - there is a reason the line is close, and it's not simply because it looks nice.

We all have to start somewhere, and there's no shame in reevaluating a product to refine it. Your customers will benefit in the long run.

My 2 cents.

Good luck.

Thank you to everyone on the board who has offered feedback and made suggestions.

I took to heart the suggestions and moved my rear stitch line in on my 1911 holsters to better fit the curve. My design was only recently adapted to 1911's - prior to this the bulk of my business came from LEO using Glock polymer guns (square trigger). As you know Glocks have square trigger guards.

Also, I shortened and rounded more around the edges to make it about .75" shorter across.

Thank you dickf and others.

(added information - this is for my clients 1911 Commander order I mentioned earlier)

Be safe,

Doc

Edited September 21, 2011 by lonestar tactical

[Sixer]

The elephant looks great! The stitching looks great as well.

[mlapaglia]

I have tried and tried to ignore this but I have to ask, Do you charge the elephant extra because a holster designed to fit an elephant uses more leather?

(I know, I know, Ill go back to my corner and be quiet)

Michael

[lonestar tactical]

I have tried and tried to ignore this but I have to ask, Do you charge the elephant extra because a holster designed to fit an elephant uses more leather?

(I know, I know, Ill go back to my corner and be quiet)

Michael

Michael,

Sorry so long but I had to put some thought into this one and still working on getting my first cup of coffee down lol.

Honestly I have to charge more because of the cost of the elephant hide and also the hardware used on this particular design. Also, I decided to ship the holsters with elephant via 2 day insured fed ex vs standard USPS priority mail. Even with my Fedex business account it costs 20.00+ to ship 2 day delivery with insurance.

I had an elephant holster get "delayed" by 2 weeks with USPS during the storms in the NE USA. Another client (lives 4 miles away from the first ordered the same day, shipped the same day) paid extra fed ex cost and got his... lesson learned - elephant holstes are going fedex. Costs too much to replace the elephant hide used. I am a start up, so customer serice is key - even though he opted to go with cheaper cost shipping I would have replaced it to make it right.

In addition to the cost of premium cowhide there is the added cost of buying exotic hides - not remnants mind you - actual grade 1 hide costs significantly more. You can buy sqft pieces of unknown quality or from unknown section it comes from for around 18.00 for a sqft piece (plus shipping) this is a great deal for your own personal gear - but when you buy grade 1 elephant panels the cost is 265.00 for a 8sqft panel (Roje Leather). Tooling leather cost significanly less than that at 6.00-9.00/sqft (retail cost).

Needless to say I did do a lot of thinking before even taking my first special order for ones in elephant. The first ones I sold were from sqft remnants that I picked up from SLC and priced as such and shipped via usps priority. They were decent pieces but after visiting a local car upholstery shop and seeing what grade 1 looks like I had no choice but to make the switch and buy a whole panel from Roje. Would 75% of my clients know if I choose to use seconds? Probably not but I would. In the end it only takes one client bashing your quality all over the web to destroy what you attempt to accomplish.

To be honest - when you compare what I am offering at that price compared to many cowhide only holsters going for significantly more I feel confident in our pricing. Not interested in being one of the big boys - just interested in maintaining my good name in the community and passing on a business to my sons some day.

Our Elephant front holsters are:

IWB/OWB holsters - sold as a combo only (holster and mag carrier)

Premium Tooling Side 8/9oz

Grade 1 Elephant hide panels

Eyelet Reinforced cant adjustment slots

Eyelet Reinforced attachement points

elephant full front

elephant front iwb loops (removable for OWB carry)

Mill/Spec snaps

handstitched - holster and iwb loops

Fed Ex insured 2 day delivery

Let alone time put into each holster elephant or cow.

Thanks for the question and be safe,

Doc

Edited September 22, 2011 by lonestar tactical

[dickf]

Thank you to everyone on the board who has offered feedback and made suggestions.

I took to heart the suggestions and moved my rear stitch line in on my 1911 holsters to better fit the curve. My design was only recently adapted to 1911's - prior to this the bulk of my business came from LEO using Glock polymer guns (square trigger). As you know Glocks have square trigger guards.

Also, I shortened and rounded more around the edges to make it about .75" shorter across.

Thank you dickf and others.

(added information - this is for my clients 1911 Commander order I mentioned earlier)

Be safe,

Doc

That stitch line is definitely much better, but could still be closer. Think about the profile of the gun and it's curves. The 1911's are my favorite to build because they are so thin compared to plastic guns, you can really get a tight line tucked in there. Also, I think your slots should be rounded, not squared off like that (for the same reason as outside corners). My suggestion is to forego the exotic hide at the moment and concentrate on getting the pattern absolutely right. Once you've locked it down, you can add whatever bells and whistles you want.

Keep it up!

[lonestar tactical]

Thanks - I agree with the belt slots and have since picked up a 1/2" rounded punch for the slot ends. Working on a leather holster at this time and also another elephant holster. WIll post images when done.

Let me ask you dickf - I traced my mock gun and then took a wing divider at 1/2" to mark my stitch line around the firearm including the trigger guard area. Also there is a molded sight track in there as well. What spacing do you think I should use? Currently like I said I am going exactly 1/2" on my 1911s and other slim firearms and 5/8" on my Large glocks (45acp /10mm).

Are you saying to use 3/8's or 1/4" space between 1911 and my stitch line.

Thanks for the assist.

Be safe,

Doc

[dickf]

Because it's covered with elephant and not heavily molded on the outside, it's really hard to tell without having my hands on it, but, it looks like it's an ideal distance at the rear of the trigger guard but then drops away from the gun near the curve of the guard. The line deviates away from the trigger guard at the front and then moves into the straight run for the dustcover (which also looks like a good distance). My only suggestion left on the stitch line is to correct it at the front of the guard like the drawing I posted. You can see a clear void where the line should be to follow the gun and where it is currently. The goal is to eliminate that void. Keep in mind that the trigger guard for a 1911 isn't anywhere close to the thickness of the slide.

I'm not saying that my opinion is best or that it's the only way to do it, so I hope I'm not coming off that way. I'm just giving you advice that I've gleaned from experience, some of which was disappointing after putting things to hard use. I suppose it's an attempt to save you and others time, effort, and money.

[lonestar tactical]

Dickf

In the USN I learned to shut up and listen to those with more experience. I did not get to where I am in life by not adapting and learning – any advice people offer is taken. So thank you for the feedback and the assist.

One of my greatest attributes is the ability to take constructive criticism and making the appropriate corrections. I agree with what you are saying – just need to implement.

Thanks again and give me a few days to finish up my current orders and I will post images of the correction on the 1911.

Thanks again and be safe,

Doc