Is This An Edward Vii Sporran?

[TomBanwell]

Yesterday at a consignment shop I purchased what first appeared to be a sporran. Upon closer inspection I found that it is not a pouch as it should be, but a flat piece of leather with a belt loop on the back. The back is a full grain leather and on the front some kind of soft reddish fur. The "sporran" measures 8" (20cm) high by 5½" (15cm) wide. I can date it to 1901 - 1910 from the brass cypher of Edward VII on the top. It has two tassles with what appears to be sheepskin.

Sold along with it (although I don't know that they go together) is pin with a gold and pearl and diamond (presumably all fake) cross on black velvet and four small white tails with dark brown tips.

Can anyone tell me anything about these? Thanks for any info.

[celticleather]

Tom

I wouldn't necessarily write the pin off as a fake without doing a bit more research! The cross is the Maltese Cross, symbolic of the Order of the Knights Hospitallers, and the tails look like Ermine, the fur of which was used to line British coronation robes. It was also used on the robes of Peers of the Realm (they now use a rabbit fur called miniver). Ermine has been described as 'the fur of royalty'.

The picture below shows Edward VII in his ermine coronation robes. Who knows . . . there may be a connection between the sporran and the pin!

Terry

Edited October 3, 2011 by celticleather

[artificer13]

Nice find Tom!

From the photo (which can be misleading) I'd say the fur is probably Red Deer (the hunting of which is a traditional Scottish pass-time of the landed gentry).

By the mid 1800's (Victorian times) the sporran had evolved from it's roots as a purse/pouch to something essentially ornamental. The sporrans of that time would either have a small envelope pocket on the back of the bag, similar to below

Or would be exactly as you have there, just a panel.

What I do find a little unusual is the "whip stitch" holding on the edge trim. It was far more common to see a linear stitch (as pictured above) which IS used on the rolled edge of the cantle top on yours.

Material, age, and style-wise, I'd say it's authentic.

That said, there is a recurring theme of re-purposing Scottish goods (thift) which might account for the re-badging of the sporran (or for the purposes of deception/sale, someone has re-badged it to make it a sporran with some HISTORY).

I've not been able to find a picture of Edward VII in that particular sporran, but he is photographed in a decent number of other ones, so it's entirely possible it WAS one of his.

Edit: I did mean to say that the tassle cords appear "off" for some reason. They look far too new for the rest of the piece. It may be that a repair was needed (but I'd expect a Royal repair to have been done better with less dangling excess left) or it may be that the tassels aren't original and this piece has been cobbled together from multiple sources-

with the bag being ERA authentic, the tassels being authentic and the badge authentic, but it not being authentically royal.

Edited October 3, 2011 by artificer13

[TomBanwell]

Nice find Tom!

Edit: I did mean to say that the tassle cords appear "off" for some reason. They look far too new for the rest of the piece. It may be that a repair was needed (but I'd expect a Royal repair to have been done better with less dangling excess left) or it may be that the tassels aren't original and this piece has been cobbled together from multiple sources-

with the bag being ERA authentic, the tassels being authentic and the badge authentic, but it not being authentically royal.

Thank you for that careful and inciteful analysis. I agree that the tassle cords appear newer. Looking closely they appear to be all cotton and not a synthetic as you'd likely find today. I can't see how the badge is attached as nothing shows on the back, so if it is not original someone had to have torn the sporran apart to attach it. It is a flawed brass stamping however. so definitely mass produced.

The fur is quite soft, more like fox than deer (at least the white tailed deer in north America, which have quite coarse fur). Another curious feature is a series of pin holes around the cantle, which appear to have been made from the back but can also be seen on the front as raised spots.

BTW, it was quite inexpensive, and the shopkeeper knew next to nothing about it. He was unfamiliar with the work "sporran". But he did sell it with the ermine tail pin as if they went together.

[TomBanwell]

Tom

I wouldn't necessarily write the pin off as a fake without doing a bit more research! The cross is the Maltese Cross, symbolic of the Order of the Knights Hospitallers, and the tails look like Ermine, the fur of which was used to line British coronation robes. It was also used on the robes of Peers of the Realm (they now use a rabbit fur called miniver). Ermine has been described as 'the fur of royalty'.

The picture below shows Edward VII in his ermine coronation robes. Who knows . . . there may be a connection between the sporran and the pin!

Terry

Thanks for that information, Terry. I did find an identical pin on an eBay forum, except that it had five ermine tails rather than four. Looking at how the velvet is wrapped around the tails I suspect that mine originally had five as well.

[artificer13]

Thank you for that careful and inciteful analysis. I agree that the tassle cords appear newer. Looking closely they appear to be all cotton and not a synthetic as you'd likely find today. I can't see how the badge is attached as nothing shows on the back, so if it is not original someone had to have torn the sporran apart to attach it. It is a flawed brass stamping however. so definitely mass produced.

The fur is quite soft, more like fox than deer (at least the white tailed deer in north America, which have quite coarse fur). Another curious feature is a series of pin holes around the cantle, which appear to have been made from the back but can also be seen on the front as raised spots.

BTW, it was quite inexpensive, and the shopkeeper knew next to nothing about it. He was unfamiliar with the work "sporran". But he did sell it with the ermine tail pin as if they went together.

Tom,

the Red Deer is more like the N. American Elk than a white tail deer. It may be the age of the hair, but it doesn't look like fox to me, it's lacking the very soft groundcoat (underfur) that I'd associate with fox. I suppose it could be muskrat, which is quite a traditional fur for sporrans as well.

Regarding the badge, a clever lad can flex the front face of the cantle outward to make enough of a gap to fit a washer and cotter pin or other connecting system in without disassembling the whole piece. *see below

I didn't notice the pin holes until you mentioned them. After re-examining the pictures, I'd place money on the cantle (or at least the trim) having been repaired or replaced. AND since the trim and it's understitch are the only connections between the cantle and the body of the sporran, it's entirely possible that

the WHOLE piece has been cobbled together, cantle, badge, tassels, and body. Of course, it could just be that the trim had worn down over time and needed replacing.

Either way, it's a very cool vintage piece, I wish we were geographically closer, I'd love to look at it in person.

[TomBanwell]

, I wish we were geographically closer, I'd love to look at it in person.

Where do you live?

[artificer13]

Where do you live?

I'm in Wisconsin, so it's a bit of a drive just to come see it, and I doubt I could write-off a California vacation on my taxes.

[WinterBear]

That undercoat looks pretty dense, like what you find in the semi-aquatic mammals. Have you considered that the fur could also be one of the larger weasels, like a martin, European mink, fisher, or something similar? I've had a large reddish mink pelt in the teaching lab at one time that looked similar to that color, and the museum tag stated that it was collected from a fur ranch in the 40s. Some of the otter pelts that were older than 60 years had attained close to that color as well.

[Mike J]

Yesterday at a consignment shop I purchased what first appeared to be a sporran. Upon closer inspection I found that it is not a pouch as it should be, but a flat piece of leather with a belt loop on the back. The back is a full grain leather and on the front some kind of soft reddish fur. The "sporran" measures 8" (20cm) high by 5½" (15cm) wide. I can date it to 1901 - 1910 from the brass cypher of Edward VII on the top. It has two tassles with what appears to be sheepskin.

Sold along with it (although I don't know that they go together) is pin with a gold and pearl and diamond (presumably all fake) cross on black velvet and four small white tails with dark brown tips.

Can anyone tell me anything about these? Thanks for any info.

You describe the fur as reddish. From the looking at the photo, my first inclination was that of beaver. By the late 1800's it was nearly extinct in Europe from what I understand and was a much sought prize in the US of A. The other possibility is that of muskrat. The two differ in that beaver has a much longer outer fur (known as guard hairs) which is about 2-3 inches long and a very dense underfur of only about an inch. The muskrat outer fur is about 1-2 inches, depending again on where the sample is taken, the underfur is only about 1/2 inch and not quite as thick as beaver. If either fur is left in the sun too long, it will bleach to almost blond (this takes years) and the ends of the hairs will curl, almost like velcro ends, this is called sunburn and can be done in just a few weeks of exposure to the sun, even by the animal while still on it's carcass. Hope this helps more than it confuses. MJ

[TomBanwell]

You describe the fur as reddish. From the looking at the photo, my first inclination was that of beaver. By the late 1800's it was nearly extinct in Europe from what I understand and was a much sought prize in the US of A. The other possibility is that of muskrat. The two differ in that beaver has a much longer outer fur (known as guard hairs) which is about 2-3 inches long and a very dense underfur of only about an inch. The muskrat outer fur is about 1-2 inches, depending again on where the sample is taken, the underfur is only about 1/2 inch and not quite as thick as beaver. If either fur is left in the sun too long, it will bleach to almost blond (this takes years) and the ends of the hairs will curl, almost like velcro ends, this is called sunburn and can be done in just a few weeks of exposure to the sun, even by the animal while still on it's carcass. Hope this helps more than it confuses. MJ

The length of the fur varies quite a bit, even on this small piece. The underfur ranges from ½" to 1½" long, and the outer fur ranges from 1" to 2" long. There is no curling evident. The out fur is quite blond. Most of the underfur is fairly uniform in color (reddish blond), but in one sectiion the tips are a distinct brown. Thanks,