Hobbles

[Dwing8]

Hi,

I'm just getting started learning to braid so I bought Bruce Grant's Encyclopedia and have gone over a few examples. I am trying to do the hobbles on page 351 and I can't seem to get the part where I join the 2 eight strand braids into 1 sixteen strand braid in Fig. 3. The 'beginning" doesn't match the "end" so I can't get started on the sixteen strand part. I'm attaching 2 images so you can see what I mean. I can't seem to figure out how to braid in reverse.

Any help will be greatly appreciated!

Thanks,

Dano

[roo4u]

the two ends should match....can you invert that first picture? im having a hard time figuring out what is the problem with it so that i can tell you how to fix it. what i have had to do in the past is adjust the starting end of the braid until it is a match. what i mean is you sometimes have to undo a strand or work one more strand to end up with the match so you can braid them together. hope that makes sense.

[Dwing8]

the two ends should match....can you invert that first picture? im having a hard time figuring out what is the problem with it so that i can tell you how to fix it. what i have had to do in the past is adjust the starting end of the braid until it is a match. what i mean is you sometimes have to undo a strand or work one more strand to end up with the match so you can braid them together. hope that makes sense.

Thanks for the reply!

I've been driving myself crazy trying to figure out what was wrong and I saw it in my head a few minutes ago as I drove home from taking my wife to the airport. I started off the 8 strand braid by beginning in the middle as shown in the book but I found out in my head that I should just start off with the first left going behind U2O2U2 and the first right behind U2O2U2and running with that till I got the length I wanted. Now I'm tying the ends off and trying to join the 2 together because now they match.

Wish me luck and thanks again for the reply,

Dano

Ruh Roh......when I tried to braid the sixteen strands together this way they came up looking all wrong. The strands on the L and R after I began going around the back and O2U2O2 left side first then the right side till I got all 16 strands braided and the strands were doubled side by side instead of 1over and 1 under .

Edited October 30, 2011 by Dwing8

[Dwing8]

Looks like I got that sequence backwards when I added the ruh roh part. I meant to say U2O2U2.

[entiendo]

I am having a heck of time trying to figure out where you on on those hobbles, can you give me the page number, maybe that will help, I just finished a set of hobbles loosely using his directions but maybe you aren't doing the same set I did.

[Dwing8]

I am having a heck of time trying to figure out where you on on those hobbles, can you give me the page number, maybe that will help, I just finished a set of hobbles loosely using his directions but maybe you aren't doing the same set I did.

I'm on page 351....don't know if I'm right or not but I went back to the beginning of the 8 strand braid and unbraided it until it matched the end of the braid and started the 16 strand part. It looks kind of bad in places and I'm sure that's because I let a few strands get out of place and they got crossed over. I'll back out to where I messed up and give it another go. I'll try to post a pic if I ever get it looking good. This is after all just a learning thing....

If anybody has a suggestion or their way of starting the 8 strand Plate 47 I'd be thankful!

Thanks again for the replies!

Dano

[entiendo]

What you do is start just off center with the eight plait, then fold it in half and then start your 16 plait by combining your now 2 eight plaits. You shouldn't have to undo anything. The eight plait is just the loop. Gosh...I wish I could make this more clear. Seems like i"m no clearer than Grant and have I spent a lot of time trying to figure out what he's saying!

I'm enclosing a picture that might help. It's not hobbles but I think the same principle. The loop where the button goes in is actually my starting point and I started in the middle of my 8 strings, when I had the loop the size I wanted I did what fig 3 suggests in the book and started braiding the 16 strand.

Another option is to just make it a double 8 strand until you get a better feel for things. They are nice hobbles too.

[Dwing8]

What you do is start just off center with the eight plait, then fold it in half and then start your 16 plait by combining your now 2 eight plaits. You shouldn't have to undo anything. The eight plait is just the loop. Gosh...I wish I could make this more clear. Seems like i"m no clearer than Grant and have I spent a lot of time trying to figure out what he's saying!

I'm enclosing a picture that might help. It's not hobbles but I think the same principle. The loop where the button goes in is actually my starting point and I started in the middle of my 8 strings, when I had the loop the size I wanted I did what fig 3 suggests in the book and started braiding the 16 strand.

Another option is to just make it a double 8 strand until you get a better feel for things. They are nice hobbles too.

Thanks for the reply! I did just as you said, I started in the middle and did the 8 plait but where I began it all doesn't look anything like the way it ends. It looks like the picture. I tried to unbraid it one strand at a time until it matched and I got lucky but I can't do that again if I tried it seems. I like the picture you attached, that's exactly what I'm trying to do. Maybe I'm starting it off all wrong? I lay the 8 strands flat on my table and clamp a straight edge to hold them down. I have started the braiding with crossing over the 4 strands ( 3 4 5 & 6) like in the book and just going ahead and starting with #1 on the far left and going behind then U2O2 and neither way comes out matching the end.

Thanks again for the reply!

Dano

[entiendo]

I just don't know what you mean by it not coming out matching the end. Are you braiding tight enough? I clamp the 8 plait loop down and then prepare the strings to go to 16 plait.

The transition isn't perfect, that's why I have a knot over it in my picture. I don't think I've ever seen a transition that wasn't covered with a knot.

[Dwing8]

Look at the pictures I attached and you can see what I mean.

[Aggiebraider]

Ok, I think the reason the top or start of the braid looks different to you than the bottom or the working end is because it is different. If you turn the piece a quarter turn, you can get it to then look like the bottom. If you notice, as you braid down the Vs are actual Vs, if you turn it upside down, the turn into /\s. This is why, if you start a braid in the middle and braid in both directions, you have to turn it a quarter turn to get them to be Vs again. This is what you can do on say a bosal body if you start it in the middle. It takes some practice to understand it without seeing a diagram, but with what you are doing I wouldnt worry about it. You should do as entiendo says and just cover the transition with a knot. Then it doesnt matter what it looks like because it will be covered.

Hope that helps,

CW

[Dwing8]

Ok, I think the reason the top or start of the braid looks different to you than the bottom or the working end is because it is different. If you turn the piece a quarter turn, you can get it to then look like the bottom. If you notice, as you braid down the Vs are actual Vs, if you turn it upside down, the turn into /\s. This is why, if you start a braid in the middle and braid in both directions, you have to turn it a quarter turn to get them to be Vs again. This is what you can do on say a bosal body if you start it in the middle. It takes some practice to understand it without seeing a diagram, but with what you are doing I wouldnt worry about it. You should do as entiendo says and just cover the transition with a knot. Then it doesnt matter what it looks like because it will be covered.

Hope that helps,

CW

Thanks for the tip! I thought about what you said so I ran through it all over again and took a few pictures to show you what I have. The first picture is the end of the run, the second is the beginning after I pulled it out from under the clamp. They are in order still, I had started with the 4 strands in the center and then ran the rest of them behind and U2O2. The 3rd picture I laid them out flat on the table ad the 4th picture I did as you said and gave it a quarter turn. This is where I'm lost because you can see the 3 strands on both sides are under 1 strand. I can't for the life of me get it going from here, I tried to take the top right strand and go behind and the U2O2 and then the left but it looks like it's all wadded up on the backside.

Thanks again!

Dano

[Dwing8]

I got up this morning and looked at my project and with the tip from Aggiebraider it all came together!! Thank you soooo much! All I had to do was turn it over 1/4 turn and undo the first 4 strands and it looked right. I'd have never figured out the 1/4 turn thing!

Thanks to everybody for helping me!

Dano

[Dwing8]

What you do is start just off center with the eight plait, then fold it in half and then start your 16 plait by combining your now 2 eight plaits. You shouldn't have to undo anything. The eight plait is just the loop. Gosh...I wish I could make this more clear. Seems like i"m no clearer than Grant and have I spent a lot of time trying to figure out what he's saying!

I'm enclosing a picture that might help. It's not hobbles but I think the same principle. The loop where the button goes in is actually my starting point and I started in the middle of my 8 strings, when I had the loop the size I wanted I did what fig 3 suggests in the book and started braiding the 16 strand.

Another option is to just make it a double 8 strand until you get a better feel for things. They are nice hobbles too.

I think I got it all figured out now, your picture is just like something I wanted to make. A few questions......does that knot there where the loop ties into the 16 strand slide to tighten the loop? What knot made the ball? How do you figure the length needed for the overall length of the finished piece or do I just cut it long and then cut to length?

Oh......when I get to the end of the 16 strand plait how do I finish up the back side? I took a guess and just went O1 Left O1 Right till the strands came to the same but it looks kind of sloppy. I guess that's going be covered over by the knot on the end??

Thanks again!

Dano

[entiendo]

Unfortunately no, the plaiting needs to be tight on its own, the buttons doesn't do it.

I'd like to give you a better visual of how I do it but I'm so busy right now I don't know when I could get to it.