Good Dürkopp Adler Machine For Sewing Hems, Cuffs And Arm Holes On Leather Jackets/coats? (Italy)

[dominic]

A big hi to everyone on this forum, this is my first post. I'm a new member here, however, I've been reading this forum for a while and finally decided to officially join today. It's a very nice community!

I collect and sell vintage leather clothing (mostly leather coats, jackets, vests and military peacoats). I just want to alter hems, cuffs, arm holes and nothing else. I don't want to use leather point needles to not damage the leather and want to use regular point needles size 16/100 or 18/110 instead.

Also I want a clearance under presser foot of 8.5-9mm and want to be sure that the presser foot doesn't leave scuff marks or scratches on the leather.

What would be the best leather sewing machine for me?

From what I have read on this forum, I need a medium-duty, single needle, cylinder arm, walking foot sewing machine like a Singer 153w-102, but it is hard to find here in Italy.

An old used Dürkopp Adler sewing machine would be easy to find in Italy. But what model is right for me?

I don't want to spend a fortune as I won't use the machine for anything else apart from alteration of hems, cuffs, and arm holes, but also don't want to go "on the cheap" and have nothing but frustration.

Thank you in advance for your professional help.

Please turn a blind eye to my poor English :-(

Dominic

[amuckart]

Hi Dominic,

Leather points come in a variety of styles, you might want to look at fine tri-points for garment leather. Regular round points can be used in leather, but unless it's really old it was probably sewn with tri or lr points in the first place. If you haven't seen them already both Groz-Beckert and Schmetz have really good informational PDFs on their websites about the different styles of needle points for leather.

The type of machine I would go for for this kind of work would be something like the Seiko TE-6B with the optional roller foot. This is a modern clone of the old Singer 17-class machine. I'm not sure if Dürkopp make one, I've only ever seen them done by Seiko. It is a cylinder arm machine with quite a small diameter arm for doing cuffs and the like. It is a drop-feed machine so you need to carefully adjust the feed dog height and foot pressure to reduce marking, but the roller feet will feed garment leather just fine and a well adjusted roller will often mark less than a regular foot.

The machine has a 10mm foot lift by knee, and you can get a flat-bed attachment for it. There is a spec sheet here: http://www.seiko-sew...e-tf_series.pdf

The other thing I would look seriously at getting is an Adler or Claes patcher in good condition. There is nothing like them for patching clothes and the little arms on them will get into places that no other kind of machine will. In good condition, with tight gears they will build a perfectly nice stitch. You might be able to do all your work with one if all you're doing is modifications and fixes, but it would be a great compliment to the Seiko.

Your English is a darn sight better than my Italian, so don't worry about that!

[amuckart]

I meant to add, a trick I heard about from Al Saguto for modifying patcher feet to not mark the leather is to dip them in the plastic dip hardware stores sell for tool handles. Tool-dip is one brand name. I haven't tried it myself, but it makes perfect sense. It would leave a smooth, but slightly tacky foot that would feed without marking.

[dominic]

Amuckart, thanks a lot for these very useful advices!

Seiko TE-6 sewing machine with 10mm clearance under presser foot by knee and flat-bed attachment seems perfect for my needs.

However, I have another question and was wondering if you or someone else could help me.

Here's the story:

I am looking at buying an Adler 1048-7S from a guy locally.

The machine is refurbished. Everything appears to be in working order. I've searched this forum, and other places, didn't find anything specific about it, could you fill me in on this type of machine? What would be a fair price on it? The guy wants 1060 EUR (about 1459 USD) just for the head without the motor and table. Will it work for hems, cuffs and arm holes? Thanks

Dominic

Edited November 4, 2011 by dominic

[amuckart]

That's an old machine which lacks reverse and is probably going to be very difficult to find parts for. I don't know what second-hand machines cost in Italy but EU1060 seems like a lot for it unless it's had a complete mechanical rebuild rather than a basic refurbish and even then it seems like a lot for a machine that old.

I think you'd be better off looking at the price of the Seiko and seeing if you can find one second hand, and if it fits in your budget I'd get one of those over the older Adler. The newer machines will last you longer, and the lack of reverse on the old machines just gets annoying unless you pretty much grew up with it.

If a newer machine is out of your budget, check over the Adler very carefully. Hold the wheel and check for any play in the needle bar and shuttle carrier. Unless the're good and tight the machine won't sew consistently.

[dominic]

Thanks Amuckart. You were a wonderful interpreter of my thought. I will treasure your advices! Thank you again.

Dominic

[Trox]

Hi,

that is way to much for a machine with drop feed and no reverse. This is a machine for the shoe industry; you will get a new clone of the same model for about the same price. Look for a used Pfaff 335 or 345 triple feed cylinder arm machine. A Necchi or a Moretti clone of that same Pfaff machine since you are based in Italy.

To my knowledge, Italy is the leather industries “Biggest player” in Europe. Italy is world leader on new inventions for the leather industry. I do not think you will have any problems finding used equipment there. I know professional buyers of used leather machines that go there to buy equipment. I am very interested in various machines that are produced in your country myself, but My Italian is non-existent, and there are not many web pages in English there. I have an Italian leather skiving machine that is very good, the Italians make some fine machines. Trox

Amuckart, thanks a lot for these very useful advices!

Seiko TE-6 sewing machine with 10mm clearance under presser foot by knee and flat-bed attachment seems perfect for my needs.

However, I have another question and was wondering if you or someone else could help me.

Here's the story:

I am looking at buying an Adler 1048-7S from a guy locally.

The machine is refurbished. Everything appears to be in working order. I've searched this forum, and other places, didn't find anything specific about it, could you fill me in on this type of machine? What would be a fair price on it? The guy wants 1060 EUR (about 1459 USD) just for the head without the motor and table. Will it work for hems, cuffs and arm holes? Thanks

Dominic

[dominic]

I don't want to abuse of your kindness, but have another couple of questions for both you Amuckart and Trox:

1. Could I convert a modern industrial sewing machine such as Seiko TE-6, Pfaff 335, Pfaff 345, Aldler 205 from electric to hand crank? Would that be feasible with all modern industrial sewing machines?

I would love to have the speed control to work on very small areas of the garment at a time with extreme accuracy and precision.

2. Which industrial sewing machines needle size is equivalent to a domestic sewing machines needle size 100/16 or 110/18? Do all the above mentioned industrial sewing machines take fine needles as well?

Many thanks

Dominic

[amuckart]

Hi Dominic,

1. Could I convert a modern industrial sewing machine such as Seiko TE-6, Pfaff 335, Pfaff 345, Aldler 205 from electric to hand crank? Would that be feasible with all modern industrial sewing machines?

I would love to have the speed control to work on very small areas of the garment at a time with extreme accuracy and precision.

You could, straight-stitch machines for garment-weight leather do not take a lot of energy to drive, but it would need to be a custom solution and it would be unlikely to work very well. If you want to have a hand-cranked machine you could use a good quality patcher.

Your best bet for extreme control may be a good servo motor that is properly programmed to allow very low-speed work. A more important factor is relentless practice with the machine.

2. Which industrial sewing machines needle size is equivalent to a domestic sewing machines needle size 100/16 or 110/18? Do all the above mentioned industrial sewing machines take fine needles as well?

It depends on the needles. Industrial sewing needles come in a huge number of different standards. The 100/16 is the metric/singer size, the 134-35 system needles the Pfaff 335 takes are available in sizes that will match the high end of domestic machine needles. According to the 335 brochure on Pfaff's site it takes size 80-100 needles.

The Seiko TE-6 takes DBx1 needles that are available in metric sizes from 65 up to 160, so you've got no problem with the range there. I don't know what the range of sizes the machine will use is but I doubt you'd have problems with needles in the 80-110 range.

[dominic]

Hi Dominic,

You could, straight-stitch machines for garment-weight leather do not take a lot of energy to drive, but it would need to be a custom solution and it would be unlikely to work very well. If you want to have a hand-cranked machine you could use a good quality patcher.

Your best bet for extreme control may be a good servo motor that is properly programmed to allow very low-speed work. A more important factor is relentless practice with the machine.

It depends on the needles. Industrial sewing needles come in a huge number of different standards. The 100/16 is the metric/singer size, the 134-35 system needles the Pfaff 335 takes are available in sizes that will match the high end of domestic machine needles. According to the 335 brochure on Pfaff's site it takes size 80-100 needles.

The Seiko TE-6 takes DBx1 needles that are available in metric sizes from 65 up to 160, so you've got no problem with the range there. I don't know what the range of sizes the machine will use is but I doubt you'd have problems with needles in the 80-110 range.

Thank you so much, you are always very precise and informative in your responses.

However, I've found a big second hand industrial sewing machine dealer here in Italy.

Here's the link to his website in English:

http://www.foggiato.it/en/

Are there any particular sewing machine that you think could potentially suit my needs? Could you indicate the brand and model of the machine pls?

I'd appreciate any suggestions and recommendations. Thanks.

Dominic

[amuckart]

Hi Dominic,

I had a very quick look and nothing jumped out at me. My advice would be to send them photographs of the kind of work you do and see what they have that would suit.

I think you would be best with a machine with a wheel foot rather than a walking foot machine because you can see what you are doing much better with the wheel foot. Wheel foot machines will feed garment leathers just fine.

[Trox]

Hi Dominic,

Dürkopp Adler makes the world finest sewing machines; I got six of them my self.

About your question,The website had a great collection of sewing machines. I found many machines that you could use there.

You need a one-needle lockstitch arm or postbed machine, triple feed or wheel and needle feed (on the postbed machine).

I found only one Dürkopp Adler triple feed arm machine with one needle There

There were many Dürkopp Adler postbed machines including some special models for working with jacket armholes and sleeves. There were many Pfaff models there to but no prices, with out knowing the prices it’s hard to make a recommendation.

But I still think you will get more for the money buying a pfaff 335 triple feed arm model that a Adler 69, or 269. (similar model in Dürkopp Adler, The Adler’s are more expensive)

Find a machine with an Efka 220V Dc 1600 or 1550 motor. Or a Ho`Sing position servomotor. With those motors, you will be able to sew stitch by stitch among other things.

The company has many machines that you could use; It all depends on your budget. Tell them what you need and your budget. Then post their offers for you here with the price, this way it is easier to help you. Trox

Thank you so much, you are always very precise and informative in your responses.

However, I've found a big second hand industrial sewing machine dealer here in Italy.

Here's the link to his website in English:

http://www.foggiato.it/en/

Are there any particular sewing machine that you think could potentially suit my needs? Could you indicate the brand and model of the machine pls?

I'd appreciate any suggestions and recommendations. Thanks.

Dominic