Skiving.... With A Belt Sander?

[Kcinnick]

I have built up a modest selection of tools to cut leather but I don't have anything specific for skiving. I was putting together a belt and I thought I would try skiving the end with a Round Knife, well I was not successful. So I took the strap over to my belt sander and held it at an angle and got a perfect taper. Is there any advantage to getting a skiver over just using my belt sander? I like all the new tools I have gotten, well most of them anyway, but will a skiver work any better than my belt sander at skiving the ends of belts?

[TwinOaks]

A skiver (hand held tool) will work "okay", but a splitter does the job cleaner and faster. Typically, any time I've sanded down the leather (belt sander for me too) I've had to take extra steps to smooth the flesh side back to a useable level....my sander tends to leave it a bit "furry".

[amuckart]

Is there any advantage to getting a skiver over just using my belt sander? I like all the new tools I have gotten, well most of them anyway, but will a skiver work any better than my belt sander at skiving the ends of belts?

Yes, both in absolute quality (the sander leaves a fuzzy surface and edges) and in time. The sander might seem easy now, when skiving is a new skill you haven't mastered yet, but think about what you're doing when you do it with the sander, having to power it, presumably bracing the leather, and dealing with all the noise and dust, etc. compared to the few seconds lap skiving will take you with a sharp knife and a bit of practice.

Now multiply that over your leatherworking lifetime...

I taught myself to skive with a 'shoe knife', properly sharp, and a bunch of scrap, over the course of an evening. Half an hour of constant practice and I was getting pretty good, an hour after that I'd gone through a bunch of other types of knife and figured out which ones worked best, and then it was on to other sorts of leather. I've got a bunch of different knives now and every time I've gotten a new one I sit down and play with it in various scraps until I've got the hang of it. I still use the shoe knife a fair bit though.

Now if I need to skive a strap end, or a fold over, or whatever, I just pick up a knife and do it.

Of course, you also need to learn how to properly sharpen your knives, but in leatherwork that's already a non-optional skill.

[hidepounder]

I agree with amuckart! Learning to use a knife, more specifically a round knife, is imperative. The learning curve is rather steep when learning to sharpen and in using the knife. At least it was for me anyway. But there is no substitute for being able to pick up a knife and perform a good skive!

Bobby

[BondoBobCustomSaddles]

I agree with amuckart! Learning to use a knife, more specifically a round knife, is imperative. The learning curve is rather steep when learning to sharpen and in using the knife. At least it was for me anyway. But there is no substitute for being able to pick up a knife and perform a good skive!

Bobby

In keeping with what Bob said, the round knife is the most used tool in my collection. I use it so much for everything, that I don't even have a holder for it, it just sits right where I can get it, next to the beer!

Bob

[reddevil76]

I thought this skiver is kinda cool, but I've never seen it for sale anywhere.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KPvDZOf-O98&feature=related

[gtwister09]

Reddevil,

There area couple of threads on leatherworker about it and there are a couple of places that sell them as well. These are mainly for light weight leathers like those used for bookbinding. In fact that is what they are used for.

http://leatherworker.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=20489

http://leatherworker.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=1216

Talas carries it and the Brockman.

Talas Paring Machine

Regards,

Ben

Edited November 28, 2011 by gtwister09

[hidepounder]

I've never seen that machine before either. I can see where that might be real handy on chrome tanned leather, however, on veg tanned leather that skive can be easily made with a round knife or a french edger.

What I found really interesting was a video by another Japanese craftsman where he demonstrates the use of a small, palm sized block planner that he use for skiving edges. The base of the plane is convex which is what makes it so handy.

[oldtimer]

I just found out ( google) that the Schärf-Fix skiver is made in Sweden, but I have never seen it before, living here all my life.

I seems to do a good job on thin leather.

/ knut

[K-Man]

I used a belt sander to skive edges all the time when I had my shop. Only took a few seconds to skive the piece of leather down, whether it was a long skived edge or a short edge. Then it only took a couple of more seconds to trim the fuzz. It was an overall time saver and I had great control over the skiving of the leather.

Now with us being in a set up where I don't have the immediate access of tools as I did in the shop, I've gone back to skiving edges with the knife. (Living in a 5th wheel RV has a few drawbacks. ) As others have stated, it is imperative to learn to use a knife.

If given the choice, I would use a belt sander. YMMV.

[bruce johnson]

I wouldn't be totally dead in the water without a belt sander, but I would feel like I had one tied behind my back. Mine is turned around so the belt goes away from me. I have a 4x36 benchtop belt skiver.

I use it to do skives on small areas like the tip of narrow straps that I am going to have to cram into a metal tip. Some of these tips are made for thinner straps. I am using them on things that need strength (like headstalls) and the tips are just mnot made to accomodate that thickness. Some of these tips are made to be let into the straps and the outside width is the width of the strap. For those I need to narrow up just the tip of the strap. Pushing the tip of the strap sideways againt the roller on the end gives me a lot of control to take off a little at time and notch for a precise fit.

On some things that fold like card cases I need a thinned gouge in the middle for easier folding. Even with gouges and french edgers, I still sometimes just need to take a skosh off thin leather. I have more control with the belt sander and light touch in the fold area, especially for thin leather.

I don't do an edge without running it over the belt sander first. I run them over the edge to remove glue boogers and true up the lining after sewing.

On the folds of straps where they go over a buckle or dee, I can do the strap by pressing that area against the roller and leave it full thickness before and after.

I don't do long laps or skives on it. I use a handled splitter for long laps, and crank skiver for tapered skives up to 1-3/4".

[reddevil76]

I've never seen that machine before either. I can see where that might be real handy on chrome tanned leather, however, on veg tanned leather that skive can be easily made with a round knife or a french edger.

What I found really interesting was a video by another Japanese craftsman where he demonstrates the use of a small, palm sized block planner that he use for skiving edges. The base of the plane is convex which is what makes it so handy.

I use a safety beveler for hand skiving, but sometimes I just need that really even skive (say 1 inch from the edge throughout), so that I can fold it over nicely. If I could find something that would work with veg tan or thicker leather, it would be really nice.

My friend's shop has a bell skiver, and when feeding in veg tan, most often that not, I find I have to tug at the piece really hard to get it moving through the skiver, and this often distorts the piece.

I think I was the one who posted the video of the Japan plane type skiver. someone posted a pic, another chime in saying its a scam of wood plane being passed off as a leather skiver. Then i posted the video to show this type of tool does exist. It is available on www.goodsjapan.jp and it is not expensive. However, like the safety beveler, it is hand controlled and would not give those precise edge skiving I desire.

[cem]

I think I was the one who posted the video of the Japan plane type skiver. someone posted a pic, another chime in saying its a scam of wood plane being passed off as a leather skiver. Then i posted the video to show this type of tool does exist. It is available on www.goodsjapan.jp and it is not expensive. However, like the safety beveler, it is hand controlled and would not give those precise edge skiving I desire.

I've got one it works okay might be just that the blade isn't sharp enough being left handed I do find easier to use than the safety beveller, but since getting a Landis skiver I haven't really needed it.

[Art]

The bell skiver you used was bottom feed, probably with a stone wheel. You could get a metal drive wheel, or find someone who has a top and bottom feed bell skiver. You can also rig the bottom or top feed skiver to run the bell knife continuously and drive the feed wheel separately (either with a clutch or a separate motor). This would give you easier feeding because of constant speed on the knife.

There are two types of manual skiving. One is paring where you cut or pare the leather from the part you want thicker to the part you want thinner, this just takes a little practice on scraps. My teacher gave me a bag of scraps and told me to get to it. While I was sorting the veg from the chrome, she came over and mixed it all up again and made two piles, one of which she plopped into a bucket of water. "You have to be able to skive everything, dry or wet". She also taught me to do a cut skive in which you cut the skive line from right to left (or the other way for you southpaws). This is way easier for me if the leather is wet, but I can do it dry. The trick here is to sandwich the leather between two pieces of glass, the bottom one out from the desired edge and the top one back from the top cut. Get a half round knife for this or you will end up with bloody knuckles. Usually I use a #24 blade in a #4 or #6 handle (#6 scalpel handles have big plastic coated grips).

Really though, it all comes down to sharpening and honing and stropping; you just can't do this stuff with a dull knife.

Art

My friend's shop has a bell skiver, and when feeding in veg tan, most often that not, I find I have to tug at the piece really hard to get it moving through the skiver, and this often distorts the piece.

[reddevil76]

I've got one it works okay might be just that the blade isn't sharp enough being left handed I do find easier to use than the safety beveller, but since getting a Landis skiver I haven't really needed it.

Hey, what a coincidence. I am left handed too. Sure is a tough time finding tools made for lefties. The safety beveler, I had to push it rather than pull.

I also had to sell off my stitching groover when I found it was difficult for me as a lefty to use it. The Pro Stitching groover was better as I can switch sides to adapt to my use.

[reddevil76]

The bell skiver you used was bottom feed, probably with a stone wheel. You could get a metal drive wheel, or find someone who has a top and bottom feed bell skiver. You can also rig the bottom or top feed skiver to run the bell knife continuously and drive the feed wheel separately (either with a clutch or a separate motor). This would give you easier feeding because of constant speed on the knife.

There are two types of manual skiving. One is paring where you cut or pare the leather from the part you want thicker to the part you want thinner, this just takes a little practice on scraps. My teacher gave me a bag of scraps and told me to get to it. While I was sorting the veg from the chrome, she came over and mixed it all up again and made two piles, one of which she plopped into a bucket of water. "You have to be able to skive everything, dry or wet". She also taught me to do a cut skive in which you cut the skive line from right to left (or the other way for you southpaws). This is way easier for me if the leather is wet, but I can do it dry. The trick here is to sandwich the leather between two pieces of glass, the bottom one out from the desired edge and the top one back from the top cut. Get a half round knife for this or you will end up with bloody knuckles. Usually I use a #24 blade in a #4 or #6 handle (#6 scalpel handles have big plastic coated grips).

Really though, it all comes down to sharpening and honing and stropping; you just can't do this stuff with a dull knife.

Art

Interesting! I didn't know bell skivers has different feed types.. Now I gonna dig around abit.

[Eddie Collins]

I agree with amuckart! Learning to use a knife, more specifically a round knife, is imperative. The learning curve is rather steep when learning to sharpen and in using the knife. At least it was for me anyway. But there is no substitute for being able to pick up a knife and perform a good skive!

Bobby

I use a belt sander to thin large pieces of leather for purses. Best to do it outside of your shop, because of all the leather dust. I thinned out a Saddle Skirting down to 6-7 oz. I nailed down the leather on a clean piece of plywood and got out the sawhorse and laid some 2 x 6's for support. I used the small belt sander from Sears. Use a coarse grit. Make sure to have some coveralls on and paper face respirator, because it will cover you up with leather dust.

I really want to sand some Tioga Oak Leather that I purchased a long time ago. This leather carves good and it burnishes good. It has a golden color. I tried to get in contact with this supplier, but I think they went out of business. I think they are a German. But it is some good leather to carve on. It is heavy in weight compared to other leathers it's size.

[kilted13]

Being VERY new at this, and not having much practice, I tend to get some funky results from my skives. I use a super skiver and safety beveler primarily, as the round knife still intimidates a bit. I also have no suitable surface for using a round knife on edges (i.e. glass block) The end result is that I use a grinder (belt sander type) to clean up my skives. I also use it to bevel or round edges before burnishing, since the edge edge beveler I use is very dull, and I haven't figured out how to sharpen it yet. Using a 60 grit belt that my knife maker buddy has "used up" on dampened leather works just fine. Dampening seems to cut the "fuzzy" factor way down. Ultimately, I wouldn't purchase a grinder for this, as the one I use (not own) cost roughly $1200 a decade ago, before it got the upgrade of a variable speed motor (custom knife makers have cool toys) and quality abrasives are not cheap. I highly recommend a quality respirator, as heavy particulates in the air are never good for you. As I get better with the hand tools, I rely on the power ones less and less, although I plan on burnishing less by hand as soon as I find a power option I like, and purchase the required tools.