Taking The Round Knife Plunge...

[fuyuko83]

So I'm ready to tackle the next level of leathercraft: the round knife. I've been reading the threads on here about the steel qualities, edge geometry, etc. and I must say these details along with the care and feeding of this tool make it sound pretty intimidating...

I'm not unduly impressed with the Tandy selection, so I'd rather do my due diligence and invest in something nice. Any assistance would be vastly appreciated!

I want something with a slightly smaller handle, as my hands are not man-size. Also, after reading Al Stohlman, I don't especially want a blade larger than 4".

I work on mainly smaller scale accessory type projects, so I don't need a giant blade anyway. Except that I would like to be able to skive.

This is an investment for me, so I'm prepared to scrape together the $100-200 for something I don't have to struggle to sharpen after only one use. Ideally, this would be a knife I can lovingly make a sheath for and keep for many years of leathercraft work.

I'm self-taught, and I don't know many local leathercrafters here in Houston - so I rely on you all for your expertise! By the way, I see that humidity is the downfall of non-stainless knives, and Houston is certainly humid!

Thanks in advance for any recommendations you can give me!

~Janice

[Denster]

It sounds like you may be setting yourself up for a dissapointment due to overexpectation. There are many good round knives out there but none made of magic steel that stays sharp for a long time. When using any round knife you need to be stropping it frequently. And if you are cutting out several projects in a day you will need to restore the edge more than once. It is imperative that you learn to sharpen the knife correctly.

Some steels will hold an edge somewhat longer than others but this can be a double edged sword in that it makes them more difficult or requiring special means to sharpen. It has been my experience that beyond about $60 with a round knife you are only paying for aesthetics. The Osborne's or the Barry King knives sold by Weaver are about as good as you are going to get as a balance between ease of sharpening and edge holding ability.

[M W Johnson]

I purchased an Osborne round knife from Panhandle Leather in Amarillo, TX about three months ago and I've been very happy with it. The quality of the knife is good and it holds an edge well. Best of all it didn't break the bank!

Panhandle Leather

Hope this helps.

Mike

Edited December 2, 2011 by M W Johnson

[dirtclod]

The humidty thing is myth IMO, a non stainless isn't going to rust over night. I live in Kentucky and 75% humidty is low 80 to 90% is more like espically in the summer. I have several knives that i have had for 20 plus year that are not stainless and they have never rusted and they have been around a lot longer than 20 years i've had them.

[Art]

Last time I picked up a round knife by Weaver, it was a Danny Marlin, maybe they've changed.

I have two models of the CSO knives, dull as hell out of the box, but after sharpening, not bad knives.

If you can't or won't get the knack of sharpening with a tri-hone, don't get an expensive knife to ruin. Add a good strop and some green rouge and you should be in business.

Art

It sounds like you may be setting yourself up for a dissapointment due to overexpectation. There are many good round knives out there but none made of magic steel that stays sharp for a long time. When using any round knife you need to be stropping it frequently. And if you are cutting out several projects in a day you will need to restore the edge more than once. It is imperative that you learn to sharpen the knife correctly.

Some steels will hold an edge somewhat longer than others but this can be a double edged sword in that it makes them more difficult or requiring special means to sharpen. It has been my experience that beyond about $60 with a round knife you are only paying for aesthetics. The Osborne's or the Barry King knives sold by Weaver are about as good as you are going to get as a balance between ease of sharpening and edge holding ability.

[Denster]

Last time I picked up a round knife by Weaver, it was a Danny Marlin, maybe they've changed.

I have two models of the CSO knives, dull as hell out of the box, but after sharpening, not bad knives.

If you can't or won't get the knack of sharpening with a tri-hone, don't get an expensive knife to ruin. Add a good strop and some green rouge and you should be in business.

Art

You may be right Art. It doesn't have a maker's name just the tool series and most of that series are Barry King so I assumed. My bad! Anyway it is a great knife.

[Aggiebraider]

Call or email Bruce Johnson http://brucejohnsonleather.com/content/index.php/leather_tools_for_sale/

He always has nice old knives on hand that he has restored and sharpened for a good price

[fuyuko83]

Thanks everyone! I don't mind learning how to sharpen them properly. It's just that I'd rather not get the equivalent of a cheap kitchen knife that cuts a tomato and is never the same again...

That's a good point about holding an edge vs. the difficulty of sharpening.

I've thought about starting with a not that impressive knife, just to practice sharpening etc. The problem is that if the quality of the knife itself is making it very hard learn, it's going to be very frustrating very quickly.

[Denster]

Then simply get the Osborne, or one from Weaver or give Bruce a call. You likely won't get more than $60 invested and you will have a very good knife to learn with and use for a long while. At that it is only about 15 or 20 dollars more than a guaranteed piece of junk. The point is you can spend 150 to 300 on a round knife but you are buying looks not useablity.

[Knipper]

I saw this thread a few days ago and was hesitant to respond for fear of my reply looking like an attempt to hawk my own product. You'll have to trust me that this is NOT the case.

I don't agree that all round/head knives priced over an arbitrary amount are just prettier and are not better performers. It would be similar to saying "Don't buy any saddle over $500, because the higher priced ones just look nicer but won't give you any better performance". Any saddle makers want to chime in on that one?

The commercially made knives I've seen at around the $50 - $75 price point come dull from the factory, which means you'll have to spend several hours to get them close to cutting passably well. What is your shop rate? Do you try to get at least say, $30 an hour for your labor? If so, those 3 to 4 hours spent on sharpening the knife added $90 to $120 to the cost of the knife. What kind of steel and heat treating do the commercial knives offer? Last I checked, a well known commercial mfgr used 1065 steel. 1065 steel means that there is only .65% of carbon used in the alloy, and that means that you can't heat treat the knife hard enough so that the edge will last as long. Custom makers who care about their work will use steel that has .75% (a minimum, in my opinion) to a full 1% carbon content or more in the alloy. This makes for better edge retention and less frequent honing for the knife. That applies to both stainless and non stainless steels.

So, will that harder alloy be harder to sharpen? Well that depends on what you're using to sharpen the knife. If you use an "Arkansas" stone, you'll be at it a while, as they simply don't grind away material from the edge very quickly. A fine grit diamond hone will work faster, followed by finer grits and judicious stropping or buffing. But the fact is, even a knife that has a hardness of RC60, will sharpen reasonably easy provided the right techniques are employed. I've tested the hardness of some commercial knives, and they are in the low to mid 50's on the Rockwell scale. They simply cannot hold their edge when cutting leather very long (...more frequent honing!). The question is, would you rather have to hone your blade 4 to 5 times per project, or once for ever 4 or 5 projects?

Also, premium quality knives individually made, one at a time, have a maker behind them that probably tests every blade prior to shipping to the customer. If the blade doesn't meet the maker's standards, it doesn't get shipped until it does. I doubt whether the commercial manufacturers individually test every blade coming off the line. Any serious knife maker puts the performance of the blade FIRST over anything else.

I guess the bottom line is, if you pay a premium price for a knife, you should expect premium PERFORMANCE. The fact that it may look a bit nicer, is just the maker's pride of workmanship. You get that as a bonus. Hand-made or not, these are WORKING knives we're talking about, not wall hangers or something locked up in some collector's safe. Working knives, or any quality tools, have to earn their keep. They are a means to an end (your finished project). They should make cutting easier, more precise, and require less upkeep than a lower quality mass produced tool. Using them should not result in tired, sore or cramped hands at the end of the day. In some cases, (obviously not all) the old phrase "You get what you pay for" still holds true.

Now, if you're a hobbyist who only uses a head knife infrequently, and if your time (sharpening, for example) invested in a project is not an issue, then maybe that less expensive knife will do just fine. However those doing leather work for a living have much higher standards and expectations for their tools, and they should! Providing /making a premium quality knife costs more because of the makers time, expertise, use of superior materials, better techniques, and yes, significantly better performance from the tool. If you don't get all of these for your money, I wouldn't hesitate to ask for a refund. The higher price isn't worth it unless you get higher value!

Terry Knipschield

(One of my favorite quotes: "The most expensive thing in the world is a cheap paint job")