Removing Or Repairing Satin Shene Over Pro Oil Dye

[charter]

Hi everyone. I am a pretty raw noob, and this is my first post, so hopefully it's not too dumb.

I had a pair of brown work boots that I decided to dye black, partly as practice dyeing, partly because i wanted black boots. After research on the forums and asking some folks that should know, I decided to go with Fiebing's Pro Oil Dye in black, with an Eco Flo Satin Shene finish.

The deglazing, using an acetone/xylene/ketone mixture, was difficult rubbing but eventually worked fine.

After deglazing I applied a light coating of neat's foot oil, on the advice of forum post that suggested it as a way to get the dye applied evenly.

The dye, 2 coats using a 1 1/2 foam brush, went on nice and even, though I missed a some small parts and dyed the eyelets accidentally. Live and learn, but so far still acceptable. The dye coats dried for 2 hours each.

I rubbed with a cloth on the dyed surfaces until I got no color rubbing off.

Then I applied the Satin Shene with a damp sponge per instructions, four coats, drying time about an hour each coat. The first coat turned the sponge gray. Later coats did not pick up much additional color on the sponge.

I again buffed the surface once the final coat was applied, and that's when things started to go sideways. The buffing cloth was getting a fair amount of color on it, and the finish was uneven, some shiny, some more flat.

Thinking it might just need some polish, I then polished with a basic Kiwi black shoe polish I had. I probably added trouble there, since now I have additional finish to worry about. But now the color continues to rub off and the finish did not even out as I'd hoped after the polishing.

Can I somehow take off the polish and satin finish without killing the dye? If so, how? Can I start over from the deglazing and try again? If so, should I? Any other advice? "Throw the boots out" is probably not what I'm looking for, though it might be the least trouble.

I have learned virtually everything I know about leather techniques from these forums, and I appreciate the knowledge everyone has contributed. Thanks in advance for anyone who might have some info and advice.

[js5972]

Depending on the cost, I would start all over and use Fiebing COBBLER Dye and stick with a finish from Fiebing. You might reach out to Fiebing's via their website.

[katsass]

Hi everyone. I am a pretty raw noob, and this is my first post, so hopefully it's not too dumb.

I had a pair of brown work boots that I decided to dye black, partly as practice dyeing, partly because i wanted black boots. After research on the forums and asking some folks that should know, I decided to go with Fiebing's Pro Oil Dye in black, with an Eco Flo Satin Shene finish.

The deglazing, using an acetone/xylene/ketone mixture, was difficult rubbing but eventually worked fine.

After deglazing I applied a light coating of neat's foot oil, on the advice of forum post that suggested it as a way to get the dye applied evenly.

The dye, 2 coats using a 1 1/2 foam brush, went on nice and even, though I missed a some small parts and dyed the eyelets accidentally. Live and learn, but so far still acceptable. The dye coats dried for 2 hours each.

I rubbed with a cloth on the dyed surfaces until I got no color rubbing off.

Then I applied the Satin Shene with a damp sponge per instructions, four coats, drying time about an hour each coat. The first coat turned the sponge gray. Later coats did not pick up much additional color on the sponge.

I again buffed the surface once the final coat was applied, and that's when things started to go sideways. The buffing cloth was getting a fair amount of color on it, and the finish was uneven, some shiny, some more flat.

Thinking it might just need some polish, I then polished with a basic Kiwi black shoe polish I had. I probably added trouble there, since now I have additional finish to worry about. But now the color continues to rub off and the finish did not even out as I'd hoped after the polishing.

Can I somehow take off the polish and satin finish without killing the dye? If so, how? Can I start over from the deglazing and try again? If so, should I? Any other advice? "Throw the boots out" is probably not what I'm looking for, though it might be the least trouble.

I have learned virtually everything I know about leather techniques from these forums, and I appreciate the knowledge everyone has contributed. Thanks in advance for anyone who might have some info and advice.

FWIW from the old grump; First off I don't have a suggestion as to how the hell you are going to strip that stuff off of your boots, BUT, saying that you do get that done, the next step is to slow down. First you say that you applied a light coat of neatsfoot oil. 'Light' is a pretty subjective term, so we don't really know how much was applied. That stuff doesn't dry per se, it infiltrates and absorbs into the leather fibers until an equilibrium is reached. That can easily take 24 hours or more in a warm, dry climate. Then you applied two coats of dye (which reacted with the oil) with a drying time of 2 hours each. When dying I allow 24 hours for drying, the stuff may feel dry, but it ain't completely dry in a couple of hours --- even out where I live in the desert. As to buffing, it takes a LOT of buffing to pick up the surface particles of pigment remaining from black dye --- after the dye is dry. Then you applied four coats of an acrylic sealer that just picked up all of the loose stuff from leather that wasn't ready for it, --- and, four coats, when dry, would most likely have cracked at the instep of the boots. Then you added shoe polish. Personally, I don't think that I would have used any of that neatsfoot or satin sheen stuff. My suggestion would be to (once they are cleaned of all that stuff) is to dye them --- once, allow to dry thoroughly, buff well, then use your polish. OR, you could have done as was done back in my time by the Marine Corps. Back when I was younger, the Corps issued recruits a pair of brown dress shoes -- and were told to "make them black". That was accomplished with only a big tin of black Lincoln shoe polish, a lot of work, and fingers that were black from rubbing that stuff in. If, when done you get polish on the bottom of your trousers, that's normal. It happens when ever you shine your shoes or boots --- no matter what color. JMHO Mike.

[charter]

Thanks Mike and John - appreciate the sound guidance. The reason I wanted to preserve the dye is that it went on very evenly and very dark, and if there is another Fiebing's dye that's even better I will give that a try. It surprised me that I didn't screw up the coloring, but maybe I actually did anyway - I think MIke is right that it wasn't fully dry and that's how the satin picked up the black. If i get the time some weekend I will do a little science experiment in removing acrylic finishes and post the results. In the meantime, no putting my feet up on white tablecloths.

Charlie

[whinewine]

Adding to what was said, I wouldn't have applied neatsfoot BEFORE dyeing- it would have been after, & if needed, IMO. Spirit black, no matter the brand, is ALWAYS a bitch- you need to buff & buff & buff (advice= use a mechanical devise to remove as much pigment as possible). As for deglazing, I don't know how well an 'acetone/xylene/ketone' mixture would work vs standard deglazer (which is ethyl acetate, made for leather, [with NONE of the above listed ingredients, btw]) ; sometime mixtures of things are less effective than their individual parts, (example: the mixture of 2 very strong glues that ultimately resulted in Post-It notes), sometimes more toxic (example: bleach + toilet bowl cleaner). I also am leery about using a water-based substance (acrylic) on an item that could conceivably by subject to a great deal of water on a regular basis...

[charter]

Adding to what was said, I wouldn't have applied neatsfoot BEFORE dyeing- it would have been after, & if needed, IMO. Spirit black, no matter the brand, is ALWAYS a bitch- you need to buff & buff & buff (advice= use a mechanical devise to remove as much pigment as possible). As for deglazing, I don't know how well an 'acetone/xylene/ketone' mixture would work vs standard deglazer (which is ethyl acetate, made for leather, [with NONE of the above listed ingredients, btw]) ; sometime mixtures of things are less effective than their individual parts, (example: the mixture of 2 very strong glues that ultimately resulted in Post-It notes), sometimes more toxic (example: bleach + toilet bowl cleaner). I also am leery about using a water-based substance (acrylic) on an item that could conceivably by subject to a great deal of water on a regular basis...

Those are all good points. The neatsfoot was recommended by another post as a way to retard the dye so it would soak in evenly. I was skeptical but it certainly worked. It could have caused the ruboff. The deglazer was a commercial product recommended/sold by a cobbler, so no chemistry or leather accidents hopefully. Smelled pretty awful though. Next time will try ethyl acetate. The buffing comment is right on the money - that may be where it went wrong. I buffed it as long as I could stand and thought i got it all off but maybe not. On the water-based finish - would like to try something else also. What do you recommend instead?

[whinewine]

Those are all good points. The neatsfoot was recommended by another post as a way to retard the dye so it would soak in evenly. I was skeptical but it certainly worked. It could have caused the ruboff. The deglazer was a commercial product recommended/sold by a cobbler, so no chemistry or leather accidents hopefully. Smelled pretty awful though. Next time will try ethyl acetate. The buffing comment is right on the money - that may be where it went wrong. I buffed it as long as I could stand and thought i got it all off but maybe not. On the water-based finish - would like to try something else also. What do you recommend instead?

Hi:

The ethyl acetate is sold as Fiebings Deglazer. Concerning the water-based finish, my own preference would have been for a lacquer based finish (neatlac or Clearlac), followed by something like Pecards or perhaps Aussie Conditioner. For the most water-based finish, I prefer Pecards. Many people here who build motorcycle seats (I've only built 1 myself, so I'm NOT an expert, btw) swear by Pecards.

[charter]

Hi:

The ethyl acetate is sold as Fiebings Deglazer. Concerning the water-based finish, my own preference would have been for a lacquer based finish (neatlac or Clearlac), followed by something like Pecards or perhaps Aussie Conditioner. For the most water-based finish, I prefer Pecards. Many people here who build motorcycle seats (I've only built 1 myself, so I'm NOT an expert, btw) swear by Pecards.

Thanks! Will try both. I like the motorcycle seat as a model for weather resistance.