White Stitching

[sinopa]

OK so i most of the time hand stitch most of my products but I am so busy that I am using my tippman boss and since you can't use waxed thread the white thread is getting stain on it (just every so often) and once that stain gets on it ITS OVER so does anyone have any suggestions?

basically I finish the whole holster and then stitch it and then polish it and I'm even having issues with it bleeding when I wax it I use wax balm then polish it

Also I'm using febeings alcohol based products and let them fully dry two to three days just like I've done for years

seems that about 3/4 of my customers right now want black holsters with white stitching and I'm of course trying get these done before Xmas!!

Thanks

Will

[katsass]

OK so i most of the time hand stitch most of my products but I am so busy that I am using my tippman boss and since you can't use waxed thread the white thread is getting stain on it (just every so often) and once that stain gets on it ITS OVER so does anyone have any suggestions?

basically I finish the whole holster and then stitch it and then polish it and I'm even having issues with it bleeding when I wax it I use wax balm then polish it

Also I'm using febeings alcohol based products and let them fully dry two to three days just like I've done for years

seems that about 3/4 of my customers right now want black holsters with white stitching and I'm of course trying get these done before Xmas!!

Thanks

Will

Well sinopa, FWIW from the old grump; I hand stitch ALL of my stuff. I use Fiebing's dyes (Leather Dye and Pro Oil Dye) and, as you do, allow my leather to dry thoroughly prior to stitching. White on black can be a problem but I now use only vinagaroon for black items --- no rub-off like all of the black dyes I've tried. Black has to be the worst for rub-off and my only suggestion is to buff the hell out of your stuff prior to stitching, then buff again, when you think you are ready to stitch. I'd also give it a shot of a thinned acrylic based sealer like Super Sheen or my personal go-to stuff --- a 50/50 mix of Mop & Glo floor polish and water, misted on with an airbrush. One light coat, just misted on so there are no runs. The wax balm is picking up the remaining particles in your dye and transfereing them to the thread --- I believe that the acrylic should seal them in place while you stitch. Mike

Edited December 5, 2011 by katsass

[sinopa]

Well sinopa, FWIW from the old grump; I hand stitch ALL of my stuff. I use Fiebing's dyes (Leather Dye and Pro Oil Dye) and, as you do, allow my leather to dry thoroughly prior to stitching. White on black can be a problem but I now use only vinagaroon for black items --- no rub-off like all of the black dyes I've tried. Black has to be the worst for rub-off and my only suggestion is to buff the hell out of your stuff prior to stitching, then buff again, when you think you are ready to stitch. I'd also give it a shot of a thinned acrylic based sealer like Super Sheen or my personal go-to stuff --- a 50/50 mix of Mop & Glo floor polish and water, misted on with an airbrush. One light coat, just misted on so there are no runs. The wax balm is picking up the remaining particles in your dye and transfereing them to the thread --- I believe that the acrylic should seal them in place while you stitch. Mike

Hey thanks for your reply

I'm trying to just buff the hell out of it and when I get cought up I'm going to experement with your mop and glow idea it sounds like it would work perfect but just don't want to make any major changes in the 9th inning!!

Thanks for your reply and great suggestions

will

[Tinneal]

Well sinopa, FWIW from the old grump; I hand stitch ALL of my stuff. I use Fiebing's dyes (Leather Dye and Pro Oil Dye) and, as you do, allow my leather to dry thoroughly prior to stitching. White on black can be a problem but I now use only vinagaroon for black items --- no rub-off like all of the black dyes I've tried. Black has to be the worst for rub-off and my only suggestion is to buff the hell out of your stuff prior to stitching, then buff again, when you think you are ready to stitch. I'd also give it a shot of a thinned acrylic based sealer like Super Sheen or my personal go-to stuff --- a 50/50 mix of Mop & Glo floor polish and water, misted on with an airbrush. One light coat, just misted on so there are no runs. The wax balm is picking up the remaining particles in your dye and transfereing them to the thread --- I believe that the acrylic should seal them in place while you stitch. Mike

You've opened my eyes to vinagaroon dyes! I've just set up a jar and put it in the pantry, and took notes on your methods. I have a few questions, though, if you wouldn't mind answering them for me.

How do I apply it once its ready? Do i use a wool dauber just as I would with any dye?

If I was casing the leather to be formed around something, should it be 'dyed' before or after casing?

Should I be wearing gloves or is there any sort of precautions I should take when handling it?

Does the leather need extra treatments of oils or conditioners, and when would be the best time to apply them?

I also added "Mop & Glo" to the grocery list! Can you apply it with a rag? Or does it need to be applied with an airbrush?

Thank you!!

[Dwight]

Uhh, . . . I never got the note about not using waxed thread.

And, . . . uhh, . . . that's about all I use.

White stitching WILL GET DIRTY on a belt or a holster, . . . but it is then the customer's responsibility, . . . just like it was when the customer made the decision.

I buy my 346 thread from my handy dandy Tandy store, . . . and every now and then, . . . I take 10 minutes to pick the gobs of wax off different parts of my machine.

May God bless,

Dwight

[katsass]

You've opened my eyes to vinagaroon dyes! I've just set up a jar and put it in the pantry, and took notes on your methods. I have a few questions, though, if you wouldn't mind answering them for me.

How do I apply it once its ready? Do i use a wool dauber just as I would with any dye?

If I was casing the leather to be formed around something, should it be 'dyed' before or after casing?

Should I be wearing gloves or is there any sort of precautions I should take when handling it?

Does the leather need extra treatments of oils or conditioners, and when would be the best time to apply them?

I also added "Mop & Glo" to the grocery list! Can you apply it with a rag? Or does it need to be applied with an airbrush?

Thank you!!

OK girl, I'll give it a go, starting at the front: First off, I pick up a gallon of the cheapest white vinegar I can find. I then get a pac of 0000 sized steel wool pads. I use a propane torch to burn them to remove all wax and oil (to allow quicker chemical activity) then cut about 4 pads into strips just wide enough to squeeze through the skinny neck of the plastic jug of vinegar. Remove the top of the jug, stuff that steel wool down in the jug and cover the open mouth with cheese cloth (to allow gas to escape, if not, your jug may well overflow or POP). Forget it for about two -- maybe three --- weeks in a warm area. Shake the jug and stuff another couple of burnt pads into the jug and wait another week or so. Strain the stuff through cheese cloth into a glass or plastic container, then return to the original jug --- replace the cap that you (by now) have lost. You now have made ferric acetate (or ferrous acetate, one or the other ---never was too good in chemistry)

Now, I primarily make holsters and generally dye prior to assembly, as I'm not too sure what the stuff will do to my stitching. I use a 2 qt glass casserole dish and fill it at least 1/2 full of the 'roon'. Immerse the cut pieces in the stuff until totally soaked through. I wear nitrile gloves --- not that the stuff may hurt me, but that it may turn my hands a nice walnut color --- for a substantial period of time. After about two - three minutes I pull it out and look, if not dark enough - back into the stuff. Warmer temperatures assist in the chemical reaction which turns the leather black. When happy with your leather, pull it out and rinse well with clear water and then allow to dry. When thoroughly dry, apply a coat of neatsfoot oil. The color will really pop out (generally). I usually test a piece of the leather I'm using on my project, and if it doesn't seem dark enough, I'll soak the thing in STRONG tea for a bit then rinse it off with water prior to dunking in the 'roon'. I understand that a dauber can be used to apply the stuff, but have never done so.

When, after assembly, I am ready to wet form the holster, I soak the thing pretty well in a large container (usually the kitchen sink, which doesn't always make Ma Kat too happy) and find that the leather doesn't absorb the water quite as quickly as un-'rooned' leather, then mold as normal. When dry I apply another light coat of neatsfoot oil, allow to settle out then finish.

I always (now) do this in an area that will not be stained if I spill, drip, or dump the 'roon' accidentally. Ma Kat is emphatic that the use of 'roon' should not be done in her kitchen. Hope this helps a bit. Mike'''

[Tinneal]

OK girl, I'll give it a go, starting at the front: First off, I pick up a gallon of the cheapest white vinegar I can find. I then get a pac of 0000 sized steel wool pads. I use a propane torch to burn them to remove all wax and oil (to allow quicker chemical activity) then cut about 4 pads into strips just wide enough to squeeze through the skinny neck of the plastic jug of vinegar. Remove the top of the jug, stuff that steel wool down in the jug and cover the open mouth with cheese cloth (to allow gas to escape, if not, your jug may well overflow or POP). Forget it for about two -- maybe three --- weeks in a warm area. Shake the jug and stuff another couple of burnt pads into the jug and wait another week or so. Strain the stuff through cheese cloth into a glass or plastic container, then return to the original jug --- replace the cap that you (by now) have lost. You now have made ferric acetate (or ferrous acetate, one or the other ---never was too good in chemistry)

Now, I primarily make holsters and generally dye prior to assembly, as I'm not too sure what the stuff will do to my stitching. I use a 2 qt glass casserole dish and fill it at least 1/2 full of the 'roon'. Immerse the cut pieces in the stuff until totally soaked through. I wear nitrile gloves --- not that the stuff may hurt me, but that it may turn my hands a nice walnut color --- for a substantial period of time. After about two - three minutes I pull it out and look, if not dark enough - back into the stuff. Warmer temperatures assist in the chemical reaction which turns the leather black. When happy with your leather, pull it out and rinse well with clear water and then allow to dry. When thoroughly dry, apply a coat of neatsfoot oil. The color will really pop out (generally). I usually test a piece of the leather I'm using on my project, and if it doesn't seem dark enough, I'll soak the thing in STRONG tea for a bit then rinse it off with water prior to dunking in the 'roon'. I understand that a dauber can be used to apply the stuff, but have never done so.

When, after assembly, I am ready to wet form the holster, I soak the thing pretty well in a large container (usually the kitchen sink, which doesn't always make Ma Kat too happy) and find that the leather doesn't absorb the water quite as quickly as un-'rooned' leather, then mold as normal. When dry I apply another light coat of neatsfoot oil, allow to settle out then finish.

I always (now) do this in an area that will not be stained if I spill, drip, or dump the 'roon' accidentally. Ma Kat is emphatic that the use of 'roon' should not be done in her kitchen. Hope this helps a bit. Mike'''

That helps plenty! Thanks a lot. I took note of what you said and wrote it in a notebook so i can refer to it later. I can do everything you suggested, except for the part about using a blow torch. I'm limited, being in this apartment for the time being, but next time I'm out at the boyfriends parents place, I'll try to do some there.

[katsass]

That helps plenty! Thanks a lot. I took note of what you said and wrote it in a notebook so i can refer to it later. I can do everything you suggested, except for the part about using a blow torch. I'm limited, being in this apartment for the time being, but next time I'm out at the boyfriends parents place, I'll try to do some there.

Well, you don't need a torch, the stuff will come off the steel wool just fine over a burner on a gas stove --- electric won't work too well though. I use the torch 'cause Ma Kat won't let me do it in the house Mike

[TwinOaks]

Grumpy Mike summed it up pretty well, and I'll only add the following: I have applied 'roon with a 1 inch CHEAP nylon brush and even paper towels. I've found I don't have any issues of drips, etc., when doing that, but it also doesn't penetrate as deeply. If you apply with one of the wool daubers that come in the Fiebing's dye boxes.....DON'T LEAVE IT IN THE VINEGAROON. The vinegaroon will happily eat the zinc plated wire handle of the dauber and change your results from deep, rich, beautiful black.......to the awfullest shade of puke green.

When I wet form holsters, I usually mold first, then color with the 'roon.....but I've done it both ways. I set my leather in a convection oven, and while the leather is still good and warm I apply the conditioner. I think this helps the leather pull the conditioner in, and so far have had good results....except for the puke green glock holster. You can then leave 'as is', or apply a top coat for extra shininess. It tends to push the oils/waxes in the fibers to the surface, so you might need a little extra elbow grease to get your conditioner back into the leather. That property is also why it's very water resistant.

Cautions: Yes, it will stain your hands. No, there's nothing particularly toxic about it that I've found.....NOTE: I've looked up the MSDS info, and FERRIC acetate is pretty toxic and an irritant. I think what we have is either ferrOUS acetate, or an extremely weak solution of ferrIC acetate - - - there's a group called 'the leather chemists' if you really need clarification. Either way, wearing gloves is a good idea. They're either protecting your skin from chemical burns, OR just preventing having to explain why your hands are 12 shades darker than the rest of you. This stuff will stain clothing, and it is the color of rust. It will also etch a stainless steel sink if you let it sit long enough. Water is a suitable solvent. Once dry in the leather, you can treat it as "inert".

[stelmackr]

I can do everything you suggested, except for the part about using a blow torch. I'm limited, being in this apartment for the time being, but next time I'm out at the boyfriends parents place, I'll try to do some there.

Hummmm, the last time I brought a flame near steel wool, it burned with an intensity that was frightening. Maybe there is a technique I am unaware with the "blow torch". Or maybe the resultant burned steel wool is what is used. Anyway -- it was HOT!

Bob Stelmack

www.pslac.org

[katsass]

Hummmm, the last time I brought a flame near steel wool, it burned with an intensity that was frightening. Maybe there is a technique I am unaware with the "blow torch". Or maybe the resultant burned steel wool is what is used. Anyway -- it was HOT!

Bob Stelmack

www.pslac.org

stelmaker; the burned stuff is what is used --- most of the burning is from wax and oil applied to the stuff to keep it from rusting, not the steel itself, AND, that hot bit of fire is exactly why Ma Kat won't allow me to play in her kitchen. Mike

[King's X]

Cool stuff...............started with stitching and into dyeing.............I love this place!

[Tinneal]

Grumpy Mike summed it up pretty well, and I'll only add the following: I have applied 'roon with a 1 inch CHEAP nylon brush and even paper towels. I've found I don't have any issues of drips, etc., when doing that, but it also doesn't penetrate as deeply. If you apply with one of the wool daubers that come in the Fiebing's dye boxes.....DON'T LEAVE IT IN THE VINEGAROON. The vinegaroon will happily eat the zinc plated wire handle of the dauber and change your results from deep, rich, beautiful black.......to the awfullest shade of puke green.

When I wet form holsters, I usually mold first, then color with the 'roon.....but I've done it both ways. I set my leather in a convection oven, and while the leather is still good and warm I apply the conditioner. I think this helps the leather pull the conditioner in, and so far have had good results....except for the puke green glock holster. You can then leave 'as is', or apply a top coat for extra shininess. It tends to push the oils/waxes in the fibers to the surface, so you might need a little extra elbow grease to get your conditioner back into the leather. That property is also why it's very water resistant.

Cautions: Yes, it will stain your hands. No, there's nothing particularly toxic about it that I've found.....NOTE: I've looked up the MSDS info, and FERRIC acetate is pretty toxic and an irritant. I think what we have is either ferrOUS acetate, or an extremely weak solution of ferrIC acetate - - - there's a group called 'the leather chemists' if you really need clarification. Either way, wearing gloves is a good idea. They're either protecting your skin from chemical burns, OR just preventing having to explain why your hands are 12 shades darker than the rest of you. This stuff will stain clothing, and it is the color of rust. It will also etch a stainless steel sink if you let it sit long enough. Water is a suitable solvent. Once dry in the leather, you can treat it as "inert".

Oh! I have to add all these notes to my book tomorrow! Thanks everyone!

[Bard Skye]

stelmaker; the burned stuff is what is used --- most of the burning is from wax and oil applied to the stuff to keep it from rusting, not the steel itself, AND, that hot bit of fire is exactly why Ma Kat won't allow me to play in her kitchen. Mike

Maybe it's the maker of the wool, but I've never found it necessary to burn it off. Just drop it in and give it a month to fully dissolve.

Skye

[katsass]

Maybe it's the maker of the wool, but I've never found it necessary to burn it off. Just drop it in and give it a month to fully dissolve.

Skye

Well Bard, that's what I've heard --- burning or soaking in acetone to remove the wax and oil is NOT necessary. But doing so adds to the show and introduces a bit of 'magic'. Mike

Edited December 13, 2011 by katsass