Pack Saddle Trees

[mworthan]

Okay. I may be covering old, worn out ground, but here it goes anyway because I haven't found anything addressing this in the post on this board (as far as I can tell). It seems to me that the large majority of what is offered out there in regards to pack saddle trees seem to lack the complexity in shape that riding trees have. I don't see the rocker, twist and flare in pack saddles that would (I think) be far more comfortable for a horse or mule topack over long periods of time. I see almost no twist in the bars on most trees. I want to build three to four pack saddle rigs, nice rigs, skirted and maybe even tooled for my own use. I have asked tree makers if I could purchase just the bars for me to construct sawbucks on with little to no response. I understand that, no one wants to be a parts supplier. This has pushed me toward the idea of trying to "map" a set of bars that fit my particular bunch pretty well and just go for it in the wood shop.

Can anyone out there enlighten me as to whether or not it is that neccessary to go to the trouble to incorporate the same fit in a packsaddle that you have in a riding saddle? To me it seems logical but there may not be.

Thanks,

Mike

Edited December 11, 2011 by mworthan

[Rod and Denise Nikkel]

We have wondered the same thing. The horse's back doesn't change shape if they carry packs rather than riders, and dead weight is generally harder on them than a living, moving rider. Looking at what is sold in the market place (I've seen carriage bolts sticking out the bottom of the bars) you wonder that more animals don't buck off their packs.

Part of the answer may be that it you can't attach the cross pieces at the back in the same way (at the same angles) when you have adequate twist in the bars, so it complicates the building process. The same goes for the decker hardware where the front and back are built identically to fit two very different angles. But that is no excuse for not building pack trees to fit well.

When we build pack trees, we build the bars to have the same shape and options for fit as our riding saddles. We had to do some major R and D to figure out how to get cross pieces and decker hardware to attach properly front and back with the bottom of the bars the way we want, but it can be done. We have pictures up on our website here to give you an idea of how we build ours: http://www.rodnikkel.com/content/index.php/pictures-of-trees/pack-trees/

[mworthan]

Now that's what I'm talking about. That has to be, so far, the only properly shaped and just prettiest sawbuck tree I have ever seen. I don't get it either. That dead weight is so much harder on them and we rotate riding and packing animals. Besides, they are my buddies and if they are going to be looking out for me, I owe it to look after them.

Do you think that this would be a good place to start if I were wanting to start dipping my toes into tree making? I have been a furniture maker for years so I understand Joinery and work as an engineer so I might be able to lean on CAD to help with mapping the shape of my horses backs and getting that into some sort of template format to check progress. I can see the complexity of fitting the bucks front vs. rear.

Thanks,

Mike

[Rod and Denise Nikkel]

Building a pack tree would be simpler than building a riding tree. But while it isn't rocket science, building a saddle tree that works isn't as simple as making a reverse shape of the horse's back either. Horses move, and allowances have to be made in the design of the bars so that relief is given where it needs to be given and yet as much contact is made as can be made. I don't want to sound self-serving, but starting with good patterns and a good foundation of knowledge would let you build a functional tree far faster than starting back at square one where the first person every to build a tree had to start. We don't want to discourage innovation. After all, some amazing discoveries are made by people who didn't know "you can't do it that way". But "we see farther because we stand on the shoulders of giants". Just some thoughts...

[mworthan]

Building a pack tree would be simpler than building a riding tree. But while it isn't rocket science, building a saddle tree that works isn't as simple as making a reverse shape of the horse's back either. Horses move, and allowances have to be made in the design of the bars so that relief is given where it needs to be given and yet as much contact is made as can be made. I don't want to sound self-serving, but starting with good patterns and a good foundation of knowledge would let you build a functional tree far faster than starting back at square one where the first person every to build a tree had to start. We don't want to discourage innovation. After all, some amazing discoveries are made by people who didn't know "you can't do it that way". But "we see farther because we stand on the shoulders of giants". Just some thoughts...

And I guess here lies the conundrum... I live in an area devoid of saddletree makers and have yet to find a video series or that kind of foundation needed to start. Nothing like what is available in saddlebuilding. Oh well, I'll do some head scratching and maybe take measurements and tracings/contours off of some of the trees I have in stock that seem to fit really well. Thanks for your time and advice. You are prolific contributors and I appreciate it very much.

Mike

[Rod and Denise Nikkel]

Mike, there just aren't that many hand made saddle tree makers around, and we don't know of any "how to" videos out there either. All the tree makers who work at it for a living that we know have pretty large and expensive equipment they use in the process, so it isn't like saddle making where you can do it in your basement as a hobby or part time job. I know you can build a few just by "whittling away anything that doesn't look like a saddle tree" but to be consistent or to make enough in a year to make a living at it you have to have ways of being consistent in what you are doing. With your background and skills, maybe you can figure out another way.

A hint - if you are working off production trees as your base, start by making the bars themselves wider. Production trees are all less than 6" wide (sometimes by a fair amount) because 6" wide wood costs less with less waste than 8" wide. Most hand made trees we have see have bars that are wider than 6". Especially for pack trees, more surface area is better. All the best in your endeavors.

PS. Thanks for your kind words on our pack trees.

[defenestrator]

Mike, you sound just like I did 15 years ago when I made my first pack saddle. Back in them days I more time than money so I decided to try and make my own pack saddle.

I had an older set of deckers that had been packed with for years. They have some flair, rock and twist just like a ridding saddle, so I used them as a pattern ( so to speak). I found some cottonwood down by the river, used a chain saw ruff cut them and sanded them to shape. Two weeks latter they cracked and split all over. So i changed to spruce and carved and sanded them to shape. After I had them done I made my arches out of round rod and welded on my feet. I sure was proud, until I placed them on my horse. They had gaps and looked real bad.

I asked my dad which has been packing a long time to tell me what was wrong with my tree. He said the tree that i had used as a pattern was from a "special" horse and he had rasped that tree to fit that horse. That is or was very common in those days to rasp on a flat board ( the tree bars) to fit a horse or mule. It was also common to heat the arches to bend them fit better as well. I think pack saddle makers just took less time to make the trees. I would start with a decker , because you can change the bar angles after it made, which you can't with wood. When I make pack saddle now I still use metal arches just in case i need to adjust them a little after the bars are made. Like another author stated wider bars are better and i would agree with that. Just make some up and stick them on your horse or mule until they fit good. Good luck.