Proper Size Swivel Knife

[Iron Pounder]

I would like some thoughts on how you come to what is the right size swivel knife for you. I have a few, some adjustable for length, some thick some thin, different size blades and different shape blades. Whenever I tool something (which is almost never) I just use a bunch of bevelers. I have been told by some that is the wrong way to tool but to me there is no wrong way in art. having said that I do want to try and get more comfortable with the swivel knife. My problem as you may guess is not getting corners smooth. I have worked and worked and can't get them as smooth as just using a beveler. I thought with so many sizes of swivel knifes that maybe I am using something that doesn't fit well and don't know it.

How do you know how tall the kife needs to be for you? How thick the body of the knife needs to be for you? How is your index finger sitting on top of the knife when cutting and where are the rest of your fingers? I'm trying to push myself this year to do things outside of my comfort zone for practice at least 2 hours per day, that's the goal anyway...

[gtwister09]

Ironpounder,

There are a couple of threads in this link that talk about it from an ergonomic standpoint and also some gotchas on other aspects. You can follow the links in these threads to the original discussions. The first link describes some of the various knives and peoples preferences and the second link is more from a guideline/starting point for ergonomics. We never got the original post back after the crash even though it says it was linked....it is only linked on a duplicate entry. The original had a lot more examples and so forth in it. Hope that helps.

http://leatherworker...ndpost&p=181866

Regards,

Ben

Edited March 14, 2012 by gtwister09

[Iron Pounder]

Ironpounder,

There are a couple of threads in this link that talk about it from an ergonomic standpoint and also some gotchas on other aspects. You can follow the links in these threads to the original discussions. The first link describes some of the various knives and peoples preferences and the second link is more from a guideline/starting point for ergonomics. We never got the original post back after the crash even though it says it was linked....it is only linked on a duplicate entry. The original had a lot more examples and so forth in it. Hope that helps.

http://leatherworker...ndpost&p=181866

Regards,

Ben

Thanks Ben. I had already found those and really looking for how folks hold it, what makes them like the knife and so on.

[gtwister09]

Sorry it did not help you. I thought that they gave some answers on right sizing with height, thickness, finger positions, rolling and so forth, The other thread had lots of descriptions of many different swivel knives/blades and why people liked/disliked them. Keith is answering some of the ways to use a swivel knife and their blades in another thread.

Regards,

Ben

Edited March 15, 2012 by gtwister09

[hidepounder]

ironpounder,

You will probably get a lot of different answers to your question here. I'll give you my thoughts but please remember they are just one mans opinion. I hold my swivel knife between the pad of my thumb and the first pad of my middle finger. My fore finger rests in the cradle mostly at the last joint of my forefinger. I like my hand opened up a little as opposed to having the knife short with my hand clamped around it. The truth is that you are going to have to use the knives enough to decide what feels most comfortable for you. In my mind a far more important issue is whether you have a sharp blade to use. Most of the craftsman that I meet in classes are using dull knives that they think are sharp. I mention this because whether your knife blade cuts well or not has a direct impact on how you handle your knife. I usually recommend that a person start out with a 1/2" barrel knife with a straight 3/8" blade. I feel this is the most universal set-up and when you have mastered the use of that rig then you can move on to specialty rigs. You would be surprised to see how many toolers are limited in what they can tool because they started with a thin barrel and a 1/4" angled blade because it was easy. Consequently, they never learned the fundamentals of good knife control and developed bad habits.

You made a couple of other comments that I would like to address. You certainly can use bevelers to tool with, there is nothing wrong with that however in doing so you are severely limiting your ablitily to produce good work. It's a little like bringing a knife to a gunfight! Why would anyone want to do that, lol? You also mentioned that anything goes in art and while I generally would agree with that, I feel there are some significant exceptions. When doing western floral tooling there are a multitude of traditions which we observe when creating patterns and using our tools. Observing those traditions is an important part of the art and if you are working within that genre they are not easily swept away. So to my way of thinking it is important to learn to use the swivel knife. On the other hand if you are tooling other types of patterns, such as figure carving, tat art, etc., then in my mind there are no boundaries. Everyone might not agree with me but that's the way I see it.

Hope this helps....

Bobby

[Cyberthrasher]

You made a couple of other comments that I would like to address. You certainly can use bevelers to tool with, there is nothing wrong with that however in doing so you are severely limiting your ablitily to produce good work. It's a little like bringing a knife to a gunfight! Why would anyone want to do that, lol? You also mentioned that anything goes in art and while I generally would agree with that, I feel there are some significant exceptions. When doing western floral tooling there are a multitude of traditions which we observe when creating patterns and using our tools. Observing those traditions is an important part of the art and if you are working within that genre they are not easily swept away. So to my way of thinking it is important to learn to use the swivel knife. On the other hand if you are tooling other types of patterns, such as figure carving, tat art, etc., then in my mind there are no boundaries. Everyone might not agree with me but that's the way I see it.

Hope this helps....

Bobby

I can't speak to the knife issue because I only have 2, a bad one from Tandy and a less bad one with an adjustable blade. But, I have to agree with Bob here. There are times where a beveled line works and is just what the portion of the piece calls for, but unless you're working really lightweight leather then I can guarantee that your tooling isn't deep enough to last. If it is, then you're really doing it the hard way with twice the work to get the tooling that deep. I normally agree that "anything goes" in art, but this is one of those exceptions.

What are you referring to in regards to "smooth corners"? Are you talking like like 90 deg angles or points? Most people will say that when doing stuff like that, it's good to either stop your cut short of the corner or really lighten up the pressure then finish it off with the beveler, otherwise you'll end up with a mess of disfigured leather in that spot. The good news is, that's just a technique issue that doesn't cost any money for a fancy knife. Mix that with the definition and longevity you'll see in your work and it's definitely a win-win.

[Iron Pounder]

Thanks guys. My biggest hang up is tight corners while keeping the curve smooth. To me the thicker (1/2") barrel feels better with the 3/8 straight blade. The knife I have that I get along best with so far has sharp knurling and doesn't have a bearing to spin on like some I see posted here. I'm sure it's just an old cheap rig. I might turn down the barrel to get rid of the heavy knurling but can't justify modifying it beyond that point.

I have played around a bit with how sharp to make the blade but not sure what most do. I've had them at shaving sharp, then put some "tooth" in it and liked that better. Is that about what most do? There is no doubt I can increase what I can offer using a swivel knife successfully.

[Cyberthrasher]

Thanks guys. My biggest hang up is tight corners while keeping the curve smooth.

Ah, I think I understand then, since it sounds like my problem. For me, it's doing stuff like really tight circles, so if that's what you mean then I feel your pain. What I've noticed is that the knife does its "swivel" job best in that situation when it's as vertical as possible. Holding the knife in one spot and turning it without pulling will make the cut in a circular motion. You can get some cool effects by starting with your blade tilted back toward you and then spinning it around while cutting to turn back and pull toward yourself. But, since that works the best the more vertical the knife is, it's hard to get those tight circles to come out smooth with a straight edge getting in the way. I think the key is to find the sweet spot between riding on the corner of the blade and having it vertical to make the tight corner. This is where I've been contemplating a filigree/angled blade that would let me have the knife vertical but still only have a small corner of the blade in the work. But, I still think it's more of a practice/technique thing that I need to work on. I know people who have been doing this stuff for decades with the tools that both you and I have, so it's gotta be possible

[WyomingSlick]

I might turn down the barrel to get rid of the heavy knurling but can't justify modifying it beyond that point.

I am thinking you have a metal lathe if you can turn down the knurling. Tell you what I did just for fun. I got some very small bearings on eBay..... turned down the shaft inside the yoke, and bored out the yoke just a wee bit......installed two bearings with a spacer between them by very carefully epoxying ,,,and wallah.....I now have a Craftoool old- time swivel knife with a ball bearing yoke.

[terrymac]

Ah, I think I understand then, since it sounds like my problem. For me, it's doing stuff like really tight circles, so if that's what you mean then I feel your pain. What I've noticed is that the knife does its "swivel" job best in that situation when it's as vertical as possible. Holding the knife inr you wil one spot and turning it without pulling will make the cut in a circular motion. You can get some cool effects by starting with your blade tilted back toward you and then spinning it around while cutting to turn back and pull toward yourself. But, since that works the best the more vertical the knife is, it's hard to get those tight circles to come out smooth with a straight edge getting in the way. I think the key is to find the sweet spot between riding on the corner of the blade and having it vertical to make the tight corner. This is where I've been contemplating a filigree/angled blade that would let me have the knife vertical but still only have a small corner of the blade in the work. But, I still think it's more of a practice/technique thing that I need to work on. I know people who have been doing this stuff for decades with the tools that both you and I have, so it's gotta be possible

You can't ever stop turning the knife, regardless how gradual the curve is, or you will end up with a straight edge in the curve. I have to concentrate on contiuous turing as it is awfully easy to quit and ending up with the dreaded straight edge.

Terry

[Cyberthrasher]

You can't ever stop turning the knife, regardless how gradual the curve is, or you will end up with a straight edge in the curve. I have to concentrate on contiuous turing as it is awfully easy to quit and ending up with the dreaded straight edge.

Terry

Hmmmmm. I don't have many problems with the gradual curves (famous last words). I always find myself in trouble with the tight little circles. I know it's that dreaded practice word though.