monkfinch Report post Posted June 16, 2012 (edited) My Singer 45K cylinder machine is no longer reliable in that it continually skips stitches. The timing appears to be fine and the shuttle hook is in good shape with a polished tip and no burrs. The only issue I can find is lateral play in the race/shuttle causing a gap between the hook and the needle kerf to occasionally exceed the recommended width of 2mm. My service manual says to insert a paper shim to correct this. I now have 4 card stock shims and adding more obstructs rotation. My questions is whether anyone has experience with this issue? A replacement race assembly will not be cheap and I would love to hear opinions before I throw money at this machine. Lastly, any recommendations for vendors that have 45K race assembly's? Thanks! One last thing - notice how my shuttle driver has been ground. Has anyone seen this before? I guess that is one way to keep the driver from slipping... ---Chris Edited June 16, 2012 by monkfinch Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
amuckart Report post Posted June 16, 2012 You need a certain amount of slop in the shuttle race to allow the thread to pass around the shuttle. Make it too tight and you'll get thread breakage. What size of needle and thread are you using? What happens if you go up a needle size or down a thread size? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
monkfinch Report post Posted June 17, 2012 You need a certain amount of slop in the shuttle race to allow the thread to pass around the shuttle. Make it too tight and you'll get thread breakage. What size of needle and thread are you using? What happens if you go up a needle size or down a thread size? Amuckart, Thanks for your response. It makes sense to have a little "slop" in the shuttle race. I also have a Singer 7-34 that uses a similar bullet shuttle type. The 7-34 sews perfectly and its shuttle/race has way less wiggle than my 45K. I am going to try a brand new shuttle for my 45K and see how that goes. As far as thread, I've tried 207 and 277 nylon with matching thread for the bobbin. I've also tried 207 with 138 in the bobbin, but that produced even more skipped stitches. I've tried a few different needles for canvas and leather. I'll get the needle sizes when I go to the shop on Monday. ---Chris Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
amuckart Report post Posted June 17, 2012 What needle sizes are you using with those threads? If the needle is too small it won't reliably throw a loop for the shuttle to pick up Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Anne Bonnys Locker Report post Posted June 18, 2012 (edited) I see that you have pulled it all apart but have you tried after cleaning all of the crap out of the race and reassembling it? Recently I fixed a 45k that someone else had determined was "stuffed" with a simple clean. On another "broken" machine the screws on the shuttle driver shaft were loose! Jim Saddler gave me a bit of advice (and I think Bob mentioned it here too) that you need to back the timing off a fraction for heavier leather. I fixed another "buggered" machine with this method recently. There seems to be a nasty groove in the retainer ring. Is there a raised 'welt'? Edited June 18, 2012 by Anne Bonnys Locker Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
monkfinch Report post Posted June 18, 2012 Amuckart, As far as needles, I've been using: - Organ brand needles size 328LR 214x2RTW DDx2LR 180/24 (for leather) - Leo Lammertz brand size 328Ch 180/7 (for canvas) I have 214x2RTW 230/26 (for leather) but I did not like them with the 207 thread because they left a larger stitch hole that I would like. Anne Bonnys Locker, The race has been cleaned. I thought the groove on the retainer ring was factory machined, but after your comment it's looking like it's a wear pattern. Good eye! Also, at some point the ring was reversed and an identical groove is beginning to appear on that side too. The groove on the correct side is noticeably deeper near the ring opening. That may be where I am getting my extra lateral movement. That's an interesting point you made about backing the timing off for heavier leather. Not sure if that applies to what I am doing - sewing 10-12 oz harness or bridle leather through canvas webbing and two layers of 18 oz. waxed duck canvas. ---Chris Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
monkfinch Report post Posted June 18, 2012 (edited) Anyone know where I can get a replacement retainer ring (Singer / Simanco part # 91430)? My sources do not have one... OR I see there are new stitchers that appear to be copies of the Singer 45K like the Tech-SEW GA5-1R. Does any one know if parts on these machines are interchangeable with the Singer 45K? http://shop.raphaelsewing.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=274 ---Chris Edited June 18, 2012 by monkfinch Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Anne Bonnys Locker Report post Posted June 19, 2012 Hi Chris, I have a 45k25 and a GA5-1and will compare the parts tomorrow. There is a long term plan to work out which GA5 bits fit the 45k but I am waiting for a full kit of parts to try it all out. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
monkfinch Report post Posted June 20, 2012 Hi Chris, I have a 45k25 and a GA5-1and will compare the parts tomorrow. There is a long term plan to work out which GA5 bits fit the 45k but I am waiting for a full kit of parts to try it all out. I downloaded a GA5-1 parts list and it does not have a retainer ring like the 45K does. Let me know what you think of the GA5-1. I may be in the market for a cylinder bed to replace my 45K... ---Chris Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Anne Bonnys Locker Report post Posted June 20, 2012 There are differences between the machines in that the outer retainer is flat while the inner is stepped. I have just tried the GA5 parts on a 45k and they appear to fit with a bit of modification. 1/ The grooves on the outside of the inner ring (the ones to accommodate the two studs) are smaller on the GA5 so these will need to be ground out slightly to fit - not a biggie. 2/ The 45k I am testing on is not a runner so I cannot give it a test but I suspect the shuttle is too tight. A cardboard shim is probably all it needs - once again, not a big issue. The GA5 is a good machine but I would strongly suggest you work on getting the 45k going! I downloaded a GA5-1 parts list and it does not have a retainer ring like the 45K does. Let me know what you think of the GA5-1. I may be in the market for a cylinder bed to replace my 45K... ---Chris Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cobra Steve Report post Posted June 20, 2012 Hi monkfinck. Have you checked the needle bar height? If you need a new shuttle hook, or race assembly one of us sewing machine dealers can get it for you. Let me know. Steve Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CowboyBob Report post Posted June 21, 2012 Chris, I'll have to agree w/Anne Bonny,I just checked the hook ring from our Cowboy 2500 in a 45K25 & it looks like it might fit with alittle grinding were the pins mount. Let me know if your still need one. Bob Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
monkfinch Report post Posted June 21, 2012 I reversed the retainer ring, tried adding thinner shims, raised and lowered the needle bar dozens of times, tried different sized needles. When I hand crank the wheel everything appears fine - the hook finds the loop and completes the lock stitch. When I start sewing leather it stitches ok on a straight pass, but when I drop the needle and turn 90 degrees then commence stitching, after two or so stitches... a skipped stitch. I think the 45K is tired. I know I am tired! My business depends on a reliable machine, so after doing my homework, I called Steve Tayrien and purchased a Cobra Class 4 package w/ the accessories. http://www.leathermachineco.com/catalog.php?item=57 As most of you already know, Steve is extremely helpful and passionate about his Cobra machines. Initially, I was tempted to go for an Adler 205, but numerous sources told me Adler is now making this machine in China and I could not personally justify paying double the money vs. the Cobra (Juki 441 clone). Juki parts are also reasonably priced in comparison to Adler. The Cobra should be delivered late next week. Thanks to everyone who tried to help me resuscitate my 45K. I still love my other vintage machines, but I am curious to see how a brand new machine handles in my shop. ---Chris Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gecko nz Report post Posted July 24, 2017 (edited) if anyone is still interested in replacing the shuttle ring in a singer 45K i just replaced the hook/shuttle ring in a 45k-25 part number 91430 with a shuttle ring out of a Typical TW3-441 part number: 52WF1-032, drop in replacement, no grinding or modification required only difference is the original singer shuttle ring is 3.30mm thick the typical one is 3.50mm thick. Edited July 24, 2017 by gecko nz Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Constabulary Report post Posted July 24, 2017 (edited) I have no need for a replacement but this is a good hint! I always wondered if parts from new machines could fit the old Singer 45K and Adler Class 4 & 5. At least worth checking it out when someone is in need of replacement parts. I´m sure a lot more parts will fit but for sure depends on the machine. Edited July 24, 2017 by Constabulary Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LumpenDoodle2 Report post Posted July 24, 2017 Great bit of info to keep the old Singers working, and not turning into doorstops, or lampstands (worse upcycle seen on ebay, ever). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mikesc Report post Posted July 24, 2017 Worse is "tractors" :(( Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gecko nz Report post Posted July 24, 2017 15 hours ago, LumpenDoodle2 said: Great bit of info to keep the old Singers working, and not turning into doorstops, or lampstands (worse upcycle seen on ebay, ever). parts from the typical tw1-2b can be used on a 132k6, feed dog, needle plate, main tension assembly, needle bar, the same needle bar with clamp will also fit an adler 105-64 at a fraction of the adler price. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fairytailover123456 Report post Posted April 19, 2018 those people who choose to turn these old sewing machines into art have one thing good out of it.they have acsess.to absolute parts Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
