Tsc 441 Clone, Necessary Accessories

[Trox]

TSC 441 accessories, holster or stirrup plate?

I am looking to buy some saddlers accessories for my 441 clone.

I recently bought minor used 441 clone here in Norway; it only came with a single and double blanket foot. The machine is not at much use to me with this clumsy big feet’s

I already decided to buy a harness foot set, left and right paddle feet’s, a suspending guide and a smooth feed dog for it. I also need an elevated needle plate, holster or stirrup plate. These accessories are quite pricy; I will have to settle for only one of them. I will not be making many stirrups, more bags, cases and occasionally a holster. It looks like it is not necessary to remove the feed dog; using the holster plate? I wonder what are the pros and cons on these plates. Which plate is the most versatile? What are you using your plates for, Which foot are the most useful and so on?

Please share your experience with us.

I appreciate all opinions and help.

In advance thanks

Trox

[dirtclod]

Trox i have a 441 Juki like your machine. The right and left toes are the only thing i bought extra. I have made lots of holsters without the plate no problems at all, never really figured i needed one. As far as the feed dogs i can't say because my machine doesn't have them it just has a flat plate there. Made saddle bags and breifcase's and all kinds of other things to no problem. I use the left toe 99.9% of the time. But the right toe foot is nice to have when you need it.

[bruce johnson]

I use the stirrup plate for sewing gussets in bags and cases. The tighter radius makes it easier to sew into, through, and out of the 90 degree corners. I wouldn't be without it. I use the holster plate very rarely, usually sewing in gussets in saddle bags, although not really 100% necessay.

[Art]

I have all the accessories, the Stirrup, or what I call a bag plate is useful for (you guessed it) bags. I don't bother changing and use it for holsters too. Right toe and left toe and I also have a double toe. I ground out the center of the inner foot for better vision. Most of the time I use a left toe (very small) and I don't use a feed dog, I have a slotted needle plate I run with everything but the Stirrup plate. I have one machine set up for blankets and I run the wide dogs and blanket feet on that.

If the left toe is on the machine, I use it. If the double toe is on the machine, I use that. I only change to the bag plate when I need it.

Art

[Trox]

[Thank you Dirtclod, Bruce and Art,

This answered my first question; I decided to choose the stirrup plate.

The paddle foot looks very clever too, I often have problems with my other walking foot machines, sewing along the edge and rounding a corner. The vibrating presser go outside the edge, the paddle foot will resolve this problem. And if they do not work out, they can be altered in to a harness foot.

I agree with Art the center presser has to be opened or else I have to sew blind.

(I see a lot of this closed foot on Chinese equipment, they are useless in my opinion)

　

I understand you all have different versions of the 441 clone. Bruce you use the Pro 2000, Art you use the Cobra 4, I guess Dirtclod also use the Cobra?

I believe the Cobra comes with the slotted plate as a standard, and then the machine only uses its top feed. When other machines like the Cowboy 4500, comes with a smooth feed dog and a standard needle plate, using their triple feed.

I would very much like your opinion on this too.

I also use a Pfaff cylinder bed and a Dürkopp Adler flat bed for my smaller work. They are both triple feed and uses feed dogs. The Pfaff uses a smooth feed dog and on both machines has their feed dogs set in level with the needle plate. None of them tends to mark the underside of the leather much.

However, on the big stitchers, the foot pressure will increase and it will likely be a bigger issue here.

(I am used to bottom feed heavy stitchers and know of the tricks to avoid markings)

What is your experience on this matter?

In advance thanks.

Trox

[Cobra Tom]

Dear Trox,

The COBRA Class 4 (16.5 inch cylinder arm) comes with the standard needle plate and a smooth feed dog. The holster, stirrup and slotted plates are optional, they require removing the feed dog. The standard center foot is open.

Tom - Leather Machine Co., Inc.

[Thank you Dirtclod, Bruce and Art,

This answered my first question; I decided to choose the stirrup plate.

The paddle foot looks very clever too, I often have problems with my other walking foot machines, sewing along the edge and rounding a corner. The vibrating presser go outside the edge, the paddle foot will resolve this problem. And if they do not work out, they can be altered in to a harness foot.

I agree with Art the center presser has to be opened or else I have to sew blind.

(I see a lot of this closed foot on Chinese equipment, they are useless in my opinion)

　

I understand you all have different versions of the 441 clone. Bruce you use the Pro 2000, Art you use the Cobra 4, I guess Dirtclod also use the Cobra?

I believe the Cobra comes with the slotted plate as a standard, and then the machine only uses its top feed. When other machines like the Cowboy 4500, comes with a smooth feed dog and a standard needle plate, using their triple feed.

I would very much like your opinion on this too.

I also use a Pfaff cylinder bed and a Dürkopp Adler flat bed for my smaller work. They are both triple feed and uses feed dogs. The Pfaff uses a smooth feed dog and on both machines has their feed dogs set in level with the needle plate. None of them tends to mark the underside of the leather much.

However, on the big stitchers, the foot pressure will increase and it will likely be a bigger issue here.

(I am used to bottom feed heavy stitchers and know of the tricks to avoid markings)

What is your experience on this matter?

In advance thanks.

Trox

[Art]

I have the Cobra and the Highlead versions of the 441. The Highlead is much beefier and looks a little different (more squared off and winder is on top), but most of the parts interchange. I run the slotted plate and left foot on the Highlead, Cobra's come set up to run with smooth feed dogs, you can change them to slot but it isn't necessary unless you use the stirrup or holster plates. If you change plates a lot, taking out the dogs and running a slot makes things a little easier, I run without dogs on the Highlead and use the bag plate on that one. I have another Highlead I only use for blankets, tarps, and tents, set up with blanket foot and aggressive dog, it stays setup that way. That thing runs a clutch motor and no reducer at 800-900 spm. Dogs, women, and children are quickly somewhere else when I use it, cats just don't care, they just lay around, it's what they do.

Art

[Trox]

Thank you Tom for clearing this up, you are working together with Steve I presume.

I tried to sew some veg.-tanned leather on my machine with the standard plate and feed dog. Most of the markings underneath seem to come from the small groves in the blanket needle plate. Those groves can be grinded of and polished, and with a smooth feed dog, it will be just fine. Are your Cobra standard plates smooth?

I also have two small issues with my machine, they might be related.

The foot pedal jumps up and down when sewing (it sounds like some big agriculture machine, compared to my Adler's), It do not disturb the sewing, but is very annoying.

The stitch length on full is also to long; 16 mm, it has to be 11 mm.

I have not had the time to read the service manual yet, when I adjust the stitch-length, maybe the pedal issue is gone too?

(It backtacks in the same holes and the needle do not hit anything, despites it long stitch length).

Is this right?

It is more that do not add up to the machine specs too.

This machine is produced in 2007 and sold in France. The foot lift is supposed to be only 20 mm, (on your later machines the foot lift is increased to 1 1/8 inch)

I measured mine it to be 24, 6 mm, about one inch.

What is changed in the newer machines to increase the foot lift, it uses the same needle system 794 (7x3).

Do you know the answer to this?

(I believe this was three questions, bare with me please).

In advance thanks.

(I am sorry for the bad pictures, old Iphone)

Trox

Dear Trox,

The COBRA Class 4 (16.5 inch cylinder arm) comes with the standard needle plate and a smooth feed dog. The holster, stirrup and slotted plates are optional, they require removing the feed dog. The standard center foot is open.

Tom - Leather Machine Co., Inc.

Edited June 29, 2012 by Trox

[dirtclod]

Trox i have a Pro 2000 one of the first ones i think. It has Juki wrote on it in 3 or 4 places.

[Art]

Trox,

It sounds like the foot pedal jumping up and down is related to the motor. Also check the belt and pulleys for anything in the grooves, this might cause the motor to move and cause the up and down. If no joy, take the belt loose (off) and run the motor and see if it still does the up and down thing, then it is definitely the motor or it's mount.

You change the stitch length by the adjustment on the stitch direction lever. There is an adjustment to limit the travel up and down.

There are a few adjustments that change the presser foot lift. If it bothers you, change it, however if it is not a problem, don't mess with it till you find a Juki repair manual for reference.

Art