Tippmann Boss

[Iron Pounder]

Bought a Boss to add the ability to do heavier weight leather stitching without doing it by hand. Won't take up much space and like the idea of it being portable. Haven't had a chance to even take it out of the box yet but maybe late tonight. Do most guys make a material guide or buy the one they sell for it? Maybe most just sew in a groove and don't feel it is needed to do what they do. I will be using it to sew solo chopper seats, sheaths, holsters, a few gun belts ( not many) and a few smaller bags for the motorcycle crowd.

I have kicked around buying one for a while but got a decent order for tool bags that I just didn't want to even try to do by hand. This is our first "real made to sew leather" machine and another step towards where we want to land. Has anyone powered one of these little machines? One of the engineers at work and also my uncle who was an engineer for Ford thought it would be fairly easy to do. Being small and portable are two of the things i really like about it so not in my plans to turn it over to them... It would be cool to see a picture or video of one converted though. I like going to old steam engine shows and farm shows to see things other guys have thought up and built.

Any tips right out of the gate or tweaks that are helpful to sewing with the Boss?

[husker]

The love hate relationship begins. I love to hate my Boss. Hate to love. Something like that. It will need very frequent tension adjustments. I ALWAYS sew a sample piece that is the same leather size and type before sewing my project, it always seems like something will need to be adjusted. Don't get me wrong though, once you get it dialed in it lays down a nice stitch.

[Wizcrafts]

The Boss is entirely designed to be hand operated. If you intend to motorize that hand operated machine, be sure to replace the zinc gears with gears milled from good steel. Also, you may need to replace the bearings with better quality ones with grease fittings. The parts in the machine are not designed for continuous rotational use, or motor drive operation.

[Iron Pounder]

Husker, Ha that seems to be a common thing with them I think. Hope I get along with it. It seems they hold so much value that if I end up going a different direction I won't get hurt. One of the forum member here sold his for around 1200 a few weeks back I think. Do you have a guide they sell or what do you use?

Wizcrafts, Ya I just tossed that out there but not interested in letting them do it. If I did let them convert it they would upgrade a few things along the way but I would bet anything when they got done it would be very reliable. My truck that was designed to go 55 down the road turned 10.76 at 126.31 MPH which is a tick faster than when it came out in 1971 . I know your just joking and just poking ya back. I do want to thank you for freely giving up your experience and knowledge on the machines you are no doubt very knowledgeable.

[oldtimer]

Husker, Ha that seems to be a common thing with them I think. Hope I get along with it. It seems they hold so much value that if I end up going a different direction I won't get hurt. One of the forum member here sold his for around 1200 a few weeks back I think. Do you have a guide they sell or what do you use?

Wizcrafts, Ya I just tossed that out there but not interested in letting them do it. If I did let them convert it they would upgrade a few things along the way but I would bet anything when they got done it would be very reliable. My truck that was designed to go 55 down the road turned 10.76 at 126.31 MPH which is a tick faster than when it came out in 1971 . I know your just joking and just poking ya back. I do want to thank you for freely giving up your experience and knowledge on the machines you are no doubt very knowledgeable.

One thing I have discovered about the Boss, is that you must be polite and say "Good morning, how are you today" and talk to it with a calm, low voice, to keep it working flawless!

/ Knut

Edited July 25, 2012 by oldtimer

[JRodz]

Ironpounder,X2 to what Husker and OldTimer said. My Boss always requires a stretch and warm up on a sample piece and does not like to be rushed. If I oil, sew a sample, make adjustments, sew a sample, then take it nice and easy things usually work out really good. If I try to rush it and get going to quick or push/pull the piece, then things go south really quick. All in all it is a great machine and does it's job.

That being said, I don't use it all that often and it is set up with 277 and a 25 needle and I don't do thread changes very often. Not to mention that most of what I do sew on it is of relatively the same thickness and temper. Usually heavy duty belts, motorcycle luggage straps, and other strap items. My guess is the more variety you sew and different thread/needle combinations you use, the more time you"ll spend on adjustments and samples.

Just my $.02, BTW, if I was any more of a rookie I'd be in the stands. But Ive learned a lot by reading this forum and trial and error.

[Iron Pounder]

Ha the Boss sounds like me a bit, I need a some warm up to get going as well. Compared to hand stitching the Boss should seem like a rocket. What is issue with the thread tension? I have heard it mentioned a few times but don't know what the fix is as others don't seem to have that problem so I didn't know if they did something to prevent that issue or just for whatever reason just get lucky. Didn't know if a certain brand of thread may have a tighter wind or possibly just a more consistant wind that allows for less adjustment.

I'm sure like any machine it has a learning curve to it. It took me a while to produce any hand stitching that looked like I could send it out the door. It wasn't until I polished the awl that I started to get somewhere. Having it sharp wasn't enough for me it worked fine for thin leathers but didn't work well for me on thicker (9/10) stuff until I got it to glide on the sides and not drag. The drag always made me push too hard and not come straight out the other side.

Husker, I forgot to mention I really like your logo (avatar)

[Aulus]

It has a learning curve! I´m in this curve! But I like these machine. This hand operatet iron monster is exatly what I wantet!

[Iron Pounder]

Aulus, how long have you had yours? What has been the hardest thing to get worked out?

[JRodz]

In my limited experience, the tension issue is not specific to the Boss, I have a Singer 111W156 and a Singer 29K62 too and they all require some adjusting depending on the leather thickness, type of leather, and needle and thread combination. They all have their quirks, just a matter of getting to know what combinations work. The more you use it, the easier it will get. Again, for me the issue with the Boss is that I haven't spent much time on it until recently even though I've had it for about 3 years.As far as thread goes, I've been using prelubed bonded nylon or bonded polyester which haved frayed, broken, or unraveled so I don't think that is it. I also use leather point needles and change them often, so I don't think that is it either. I really just attribute it to the type, thickness, and temper of the leather. BTW, I am usually only making adjustments to the top tension unless I change the bottom thread. From what I've read on this forum that seems to be normal and expected. Unfortunately, it gives us rookies a good amount of frustration.My advise, just use your Boss and sew all the scraps you can in various types, thicknesses, and tempers and with experience in making those adjustments you'll be good to go. There was a post on here a while back where one gentlemen made himself a cheet sheet counting the threads on the tension adjustment screws for different setups so he could easily and quickly change set ups. I think he had even made reference marks with a sharpie to help himself out.Happy stitching and enjoy your new toy,

[uscglechief]

When using my boss the thread seems to from time to time, twist. The twist itself will run up along the machine, while it doesn't appear to affect the product it does bother me as I'm not sure what I'm doing wrong. Has/does this happen to others? and if so how did you correct it? I've also had troubles with needle or thread skip, not sure of the proper term, was happening about every other stitch so I adjusted the needle scarf and that helped. My biggest issue now is making sure the stitch depth is set accurately turning that knob just doesn't seem to do anything.

Sorry this post is part question and part rant, guess its that love hate relationship with the Boss. I will admit I wasn't hand sewing long before I bought this machine second hand from a guy in Oregon, I followed the instructions, best I could anyway during the set and like others here find myself adjusting and fine tuning each time I use it....guess thats actually a good thing.

Any tips or advice would be appreciated.

[mlapaglia]

I hope I do not jinx it but Once I got my Boss tension set I have not had to change it. I hve sewn a 5/6 single layer, 8/9 single and double layer with black and white thread. I still have not had to adjust the tension. The stitch length needs adjusting depending on the thickness but the tension seems to be solid and stable. Im sure I am a lucky one but once you get the tension adjustments figured out its pretty easy to set it up for new leather thickness or thread.

As for the material quide I bought one. I use it on belts but not on holsters. It has its uses. NEVER NEVER remove the material guide and put the mounting screw back in the hole on the Boss without the guide. It will lock up the Boss solid. Guess how I know?

Edited July 26, 2012 by mlapaglia

[Iron Pounder]

I hope I do not jinx it but Once I got my Boss tension set I have not had to change it. I hve sewn a 5/6 single layer, 8/9 single and double layer with black and white thread. I still have not had to adjust the tension. The stitch length needs adjusting depending on the thickness but the tension seems to be solid and stable. Im sure I am a lucky one but once you get the tension adjustments figured out its pretty easy to set it up for new leather thickness or thread.

As for the material quide I bought one. I use it on belts but not on holsters. It has its uses. NEVER NEVER remove the material guide and put the mounting screw back in the hole on the Boss without the guide. It will lock up the Boss solid. Guess how I know?

Do you wrap the secondary and primary tension or just the primary?

[mlapaglia]

I wrap both. Then set them to the starting point that Tippman says. At that point I only adjusted the main tension nut.

[Iron Pounder]

First few runs of test stitches came out great. I used a full wrap around both tensioners and factory base settings as suggested by others. I like the look I get when I loock the stitch like I do with my 111w155. This is how I do it... I have heard others say they do it at least close to this as well. I sew a test run on a scrap of same weights I will be sewing then take the length of 3 total and start that far in from where you want the first stitch to be and sew towards the first stitch location, with the needle down in the hole of where the first stitch will be spin the leather 180 degrees and sew as normal putting the next two stitches in the same holes you made locking the stitch. I've not had any problem with doing it like this and with thinner thread (69 and 138) it doesn't stand out much.

I'm not completely understanding the way Tippmann says to lock the stitch I guess. When I do it the way I understand them telling to do it I have a loop on the bottom and it looks bulky in general on the top as well. I would like to come up with a way to lock and have it look nice without turning the leather.

One of the disadvantages of a smller throat machine I guess but there is no way I can turn one of the things I would like to sew. Would things work out ok if I started stitching just one stitch and then pulled it back and stitched that same stitch again and ran out like normal from there? My thinking is I wouldn't get that loop on the bottom then. I understand the start will never look as good as hand stitching but just trying to get it as good as I can.

Most of the things I want to sew with this machine can have the sew pattern adapted to be able to sew in a circle and lock the stitch by sewing back over the first stitches when I complete the circle but everything.

[JRodz]

Ironpounder,Depending on what I'm sewing, sometimes I just leave extra thread at the start and finish to tie it off by hand just like I would if I was stitching by hand. If it is a bigger item, then I will finish it off by getting both threads on the back side, form a square knot and work it into the needle hole, cut the thread close, and melt edges. I use a microtorch, in part because I had some at work, but also because the tip is very precise and I melt the edges without burning anything else.

There are some old posts on this site describing the process in more detail, this site is where I learned that trick/tip.

[Iron Pounder]

I tried to search. Do you have a link or know what wording I need to search for? I like the idea of not having a double stitch at all if possible.

[JRodz]

Ironpounder,

Here are some of the posts I was referring to. Hope they help.

http://leatherworker.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=34997&st=0&p=216930&hl=backstitching&fromsearch=1entry216930

http://leatherworker.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=38875&st=0&p=241408&hl=backstitching&fromsearch=1entry241408

http://leatherworker.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=38875&st=0&p=241408&hl=backstitching&fromsearch=1entry241408

http://leatherworker.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=7006&st=0

[Iron Pounder]

Thank you for the links, that was exactly what I needed. I do have another issue. How much pull should be on the bobbin thread? It seems very hard to pull and for whatever reason it seems to be too tight based on looking at the stitch at times and others times looks fine. I guess it may be right on the edge of either too much bobbin tension or not enough top tension. So which should I change, top or bottom?

I think I remember seeing a guy tightening up both a bit at a time but it sure does seem very hard to pull out any bobbin thread. This is still the factory bobbin from new and whatever they have in it.

[JRodz]

It should not be hard to pull thread from the bobbin, you should feel a light drag but it should pull out smooth and easy. Generally speaking, the bobbin tension isn't adjusted very often, balancing is done with the top tension.

[Iron Pounder]

Then I guess the bobbin must be WAY too tight. If I grab the thread coming out of the plate with my thumb and index and bear down on the thread as hard as I can it will slip from my fingers before I can pull any thread from the bobbin. When I put two fingers on it and my thumb and pull I can pull some out. I'm pulling this to the rear of the machine in line of how I would stitch.

I have the top set to what the factory says wouldnt that mean I would have to back off the top a good bit? This is just my slack of expierence but I will get there.

Edited July 29, 2012 by Iron Pounder

[JRodz]

I would leave th top as is and just loosen the bobbin tension and start from there.

[Denster]

I would leave th top as is and just loosen the bobbin tension and start from there.

Right on the money. Most folks set their bobbin tension way to tight and it is the source of many of the reported problems. A light, about 1lb drag on the bobbin. Set the top tension to factory reccomendations and do any tweaking with the primary tensioner.

[mlapaglia]

Start 2 stitches out. Call them 0 1 2. 0 is at the start of the leather and 2 is where you make the first stitch and 1 is between them. Stitch #2 pull back and stitch #1 pull back and stitch #0 then go forward like normal and stitch the line. Thats how I start them and its fine. I have also just done 0 1 and it works but 0 1 2 is really strong and the bottom isnt nasty looking.

[Iron Pounder]

I looked at an old Boss manual and it shows the secondary being wound the other direction from how I put it. I would guess the way I have it makes it much tighter on the top which would make sense that it could work with the bobbin being so tight. I'm going to change the top and take some tension out of the bottom and see how it goes. It seems odd they would have set it way too tight from the factory.

Mlapaglia, I will have a go at the way you do it once I get the tension set right. I can tell the thing is going to sew great once I get myself dialed in. Do you have a picture so I know when I have it right? You can email it to me if you don't want to post it.