Service,

[rdb]

My 3000 doesn't leave a mark.

From my understanding, they've modified the standard mfg. parts to do what we want. and need. Depending on the leather, the bottom stitch looks as good as the top. The servo motor is a gawdsend, it'll go as slow as a turtle through molasses if you want it too, and zip through a length of strap faster than you can cut it off the hide.

Artisan set it up beautiful before shipping. I'm convinced it'll sew plywood if I wanted it to. In the beginning I had some troubles (user ones), Steve answered the phone each time , no lovely on-hold music. He was in no hurry, he talked me through it, and offered 16 other suggestions to boot. Sounds like a great guy.

Between the service, the price and the product, there's only one company I'll deal with.

[Art]

Hi Bree,

On Jackets, I did a bunch of these in the 80's, M/C, School, Team, you name it. I still have partnerships in a few team shops. For patches on sleeves or shoulders, there is nothing like a 29 or 30, I guess that's why they call it a patcher. For sewing jacket backs (or fronts) I recommend removing the lining, sewing on the patch, and reinstalling the lining. It looks better and there is less chance of stitching the lining in the wrong place, it also hides a multitude of things. Also designing a flat bed table that wheels into place makes it easier to do heavier jackets. Artisan makes something like that which attaches to the 3000, but I don't know if they have something for the bigger machines. It would have to be custom for the 25s and 36s.

Also, weight is not as big a factor as you might think when you distribute it over a large area. If a 200-250 lb person can stand with their feet together in a spot, there is not much likelihood that even a big stitcher will go crashing through the floor. Have the whole family stand where you are going to have the machine and if you survive, the machine will probably be OK too.

Art

Great minds think alike. Exactly my thoughts. Artisan Dave gave me some additional info which I will share.

1) The Head Weights are as follows: TORO 4000R is 135 pounds, The 4000R LA-25 is 220 pounds.

2) Shipping weights are approximately 350 lbs and 675. Weight varies depending on the actual weight of the shipping pallet used.

Also they can set the R Series T-4000's to sew 415 thread.

The cast iron stand used with the LA-25 is the monster here. The machine head is manageably larger but the stand is HUGE! I would be afraid to put it into my sewing room because it is not on concrete. I would hate to have a 700 pound sewing machine and accoutrement come crashing through the floor joists!!

I would LOVE to have that 25" arm though. There is no doubt about it and the few hundred extra is well worth the money. The problem is the sheer mass of the total unit. Even getting it from the truck inside is a challenge. It really wants a forklift to move it around.

[Ian]

Hi Ian,

For harness or bridle, I doubt you would need the drop feed so you would get it setup with a needle feed plate on the bottom. You can use the left foot that comes with it that seldom marks or something special from Steve. If you turn corners (of course you do) you can grind or file the nib off the center foot and buff it smooth or they probably make one without it. This and the pressure foot pressure adjustment seems to cure most marking. Of course, don't sew wet leather. However, I have seen a couple of 3000s that don't mark out of the box, dogs and all.

Art

Thanks Art, that has been the biggest issue with my machine. I use a center foot that I've ground down pretty good, but still occionally have a marking problem - not, of course with veg tan, but the stuffed leathers, it drives me nuts. I'm getting a new business set up right now, so Artisan will definitely be an addition.

[Bree]

Hi Bree,

On Jackets, I did a bunch of these in the 80's, M/C, School, Team, you name it. I still have partnerships in a few team shops. For patches on sleeves or shoulders, there is nothing like a 29 or 30, I guess that's why they call it a patcher. For sewing jacket backs (or fronts) I recommend removing the lining, sewing on the patch, and reinstalling the lining. It looks better and there is less chance of stitching the lining in the wrong place, it also hides a multitude of things. Also designing a flat bed table that wheels into place makes it easier to do heavier jackets. Artisan makes something like that which attaches to the 3000, but I don't know if they have something for the bigger machines. It would have to be custom for the 25s and 36s.

Also, weight is not as big a factor as you might think when you distribute it over a large area. If a 200-250 lb person can stand with their feet together in a spot, there is not much likelihood that even a big stitcher will go crashing through the floor. Have the whole family stand where you are going to have the machine and if you survive, the machine will probably be OK too.

Art

Yep... I fully expect to have to make a custom wheel-in flatbed table for the device. I have a complete woodworking shop in the basement with several hundred BF of White Oak and Hard Maple so that shouldn't be too difficult other than making the time for it.

I wonder if it is possible to use one of their other lighter stands with the LA-25?

[Art]

Hi Bree,

Jerry has been in the sewing machine business since the camel wore sandals and I don't think he would put it on the big stand if it wasn't necessary. I would give him a call 1-888-838-1408 and see what he says. Those guys know what they are doing and I don't think they will sell you something that won't work. The newer motors are a bit lighter and offer less of a counterpoise to the head weight outboard of the column, so you might really need the additional support of the big column on the Heavy stand.

Make sure to get lift gate delivery; the driver will have a pallet jack with him and will put it wherever you want it and he can get to. I usually tip them $20. Then get the spot ready and clear a path to it and call over three heavy duty dudes, anyone who can stand up a Harley will do really well. The head and stand are usually apart so that's half the battle. If the stand has casters, then that is a big plus, otherwise put a couple of furniture pads on the floor so you can slide without scratching (the floor not the stand). If you have steps, prepare for a little cussing and screaming (a case of bud doesn't hurt here either). After you get the stand where you want it, it is just a matter of bolting the head on, no mean feat, but three guys and a little teamwork will get it on the stand and the bolts in, everything will fit. A couple of Crescent wrenches will help. At this point you might want to call Steve and let him walk you through everything, he's a great guy and has the patience of Job.

To save a little money (but it will require a little effort) Jerry and Steve will be at the IFoLG show in Columbus, Ohio September 26, 27, and 28 and might be able to deliver a machine to you there, it would save the shipping, of course you would need a pickup or a trailer (or both). You would have to work that out with them.

Art

Yep... I fully expect to have to make a custom wheel-in flatbed table for the device. I have a complete woodworking shop in the basement with several hundred BF of White Oak and Hard Maple so that shouldn't be too difficult other than making the time for it.

I wonder if it is possible to use one of their other lighter stands with the LA-25?

[Bree]

Hi Bree,

Jerry has been in the sewing machine business since the camel wore sandals and I don't think he would put it on the big stand if it wasn't necessary. I would give him a call 1-888-838-1408 and see what he says. Those guys know what they are doing and I don't think they will sell you something that won't work. The newer motors are a bit lighter and offer less of a counterpoise to the head weight outboard of the column, so you might really need the additional support of the big column on the Heavy stand.

Make sure to get lift gate delivery; the driver will have a pallet jack with him and will put it wherever you want it and he can get to. I usually tip them $20. Then get the spot ready and clear a path to it and call over three heavy duty dudes, anyone who can stand up a Harley will do really well. The head and stand are usually apart so that's half the battle. If the stand has casters, then that is a big plus, otherwise put a couple of furniture pads on the floor so you can slide without scratching (the floor not the stand). If you have steps, prepare for a little cussing and screaming (a case of bud doesn't hurt here either). After you get the stand where you want it, it is just a matter of bolting the head on, no mean feat, but three guys and a little teamwork will get it on the stand and the bolts in, everything will fit. A couple of Crescent wrenches will help. At this point you might want to call Steve and let him walk you through everything, he's a great guy and has the patience of Job.

To save a little money (but it will require a little effort) Jerry and Steve will be at the IFoLG show in Columbus, Ohio September 26, 27, and 28 and might be able to deliver a machine to you there, it would save the shipping, of course you would need a pickup or a trailer (or both). You would have to work that out with them.

Art

Not a bad idea to take the Dodge RAM over to the Columbus Show. I have never been to one and I would probably enjoy it very much plus I might well come home with a nice machine!

I know what you mean about the stairs. My table saw weighed almost 500 pounds and it had to go down the stairs. That was a trial to be sure. It took 3 guys to get that thing off the truck, get it off the pallet and down the stairs. Pain in the butt. I have a bunch of other equipment where the weight was 300-400 pounds. Each piece has its own challenge.

Getting the head and the stand separated is a huge part of the battle. And if the top of the stand is separable from the bottom that nibbles the weight down as well. I think the HD stand will break down into at least three parts... the table, the pedestal, and the base. That would knock the problem down considerably cuz you can open the boxes on the truck and take out each discreet part and cart each one in.

UR right about the motors. The new servos weigh less than the old clutch motors. But I think the pedestal is carrying the full weight of the machine head. It is a monster pedestal.

If it comes in two crates, I would pick it up at the terminal in my Dodge RAM and have helpers unload it from the pickup. That how I did all the equipment I bought at Grizzly. Forklift just parked the pallets on the Dodge RAM and off I went. Had to leave it all on the truck overnight due to a rainstorm. Next day it all came off easy as pie.