Durkopp-Adler 267 Vs Pfaff 1245

[Ash]

hi,

I'm going to buy my first sewing machine for leatherwork.

I've read a lot of topics in here and, unfortunately, I'm not able to buy some of your well recomended sewing machines because they are not available in Italy.

So, I found the two sewing machines written on object above.

The first one is new and the other one is used but completely revisoned (so like new).

I will use it mostly for belts, bags, purses, wallets and so on.

I ask you a suggestion to help me in the choice. Someone has one of these machines and can give me an hand?

thanks a lot

Ash

[Trox]

They are both in the same class (upholstry class sewing machines) and will do the same. To compare them I need the sub class numbers on both. (the number behinde 267 and 1245). Picture and price will also help.

Thanks

Trox

[Andrew Chee]

One thing to bear in mind. Parts are crazy expensive for these machines. But if you get one, check out www.kwokhing.com for inexpensive accessories for those machines. Their edge guides are amazing and very well priced.

Andrew

[Ash]

Hi

Thanks for reply.. I'm not sure about the exact models, I think the DA is 267-373 (or 273) while Pfaff has triple transport (i don't know if it is the correct word), single needle (as the DA, indeed). Hope it helps

[Ken Nelson]

Hi

Thanks for reply.. I'm not sure about the exact models, I think the DA is 267-373 (or 273) while Pfaff has triple transport (i don't know if it is the correct word), single needle (as the DA, indeed). Hope it helps

The machines are very similiar. Both are compound feed and if in good condition, will last for many years. Both will sew 3/8". and up to 207 thread on top with 138 on the bottom. Hope this helps.

[Trox]

Hi

Thanks for reply.. I'm not sure about the exact models, I think the DA is 267-373 (or 273) while Pfaff has triple transport (i don't know if it is the correct word), single needle (as the DA, indeed). Hope it helps

Hi, The DA 267-373 is a triple feed single needle (273 is a two needle version). It is a good basic machine; I have one myself and am very happy with it. It will take up to TKT 15 (maybe TKT 10 on top, as Ken already has told you. I have never tried since I have heavier machines and do not need to)

The Pfaff 1245 is also a very good machine, since I do not know the numbers behind 1245, I cannot tell you more about it. It is as heavy as the DA and maybe a bit stronger too (both up 10 to 11 mm thick material). Here in Norway it is a very popular choice for upholstery. The Pfaff spare part prices are more expensive than DA parts here in Europe. The most important parts like hooks, plates and feet’s can be bought after marked. This is like choosing between a Mercedes and a BMW, they both are very good. Therefore, you must look for the age of the machine (paint color and subclass # can tell). Check hook and needle bar for wear. Look for extras like a needle position servomotor etc.

Good luck.

[Jimbob]

I have had several Adler 267-373 in a short time, not much sewing time, but I love the way the Adler acts and works.....I have now a nearly new Adler 267 and this will be a keeper!! Good machine, solid and well build.....even the newer ones from China!

Will do more sewing and reporting on how I get along with her....

James

[Ash]

thanks a lot.

The machines are both completely restored with new spare parts when needed, and also the engines are new.

PFAFF is a grey one (so maybe from the 80's??), DA is more recent (but not new). Both at the same price, 800 euros

it could be a good deal?

[Andrew Chee]

Those are expensive machines so 800euros is not bad. Is the new motor a servo or a clutch? Try to get them to throw in a servo if it's not already.

Andrew

[Trox]

Yes, thats not bad. Try them out, see who suit you best. The Pfaff will be a bit more expensive than the DA new. So if the Adler is newer, check the motors. A clutch motor is of no value even new. A Efka position motor will cost you 900 Euros new. Check motors and extras.

[seweng]

If the Adler 267-373 is a German made version in good condition, it’s a fair price. Later Durkopp Adler 267-373 models are made in China and can be purchased much cheaper than the German models used to cost.

Beware that both Durkopp and Pfaff charge high prices for spare parts and feet. After market feet are available at much cheaper prices.

[Ash]

thanks everyone for the suggestions and tips.

I got a new offer, it's a PFAFF 1245 yellow (so Germany made in the 90's, isn't it?) completely restored with a servomotor Efka (vd 552) at 1000 euros. Sounds good?

[Trox]

I have a German DA 267-373 with Efka DC 1600 still in new condition, I is a dream to use. However I know the Pfaff 1245 is a very good machine too. I have mostly heavy Adler machines and I love them. However, I got a small Pfaff 345 (triple feed cylinder bed) I am using. It is old but still very good. Old Pfaff machines are very well made, I have never seen better steel quality in plates and feet`s. The feet`s are so hard it is almost impossible to alter them, (it will take more time anyway) It made like a Swiss watch.

Like Seweng told you the Pfaff spare part prices are extremely high, thats because they are hand made in Germany. Here in Europe Pfaff part cost about the double of DA parts. Example from Norway, a high priced country ; a binding needle plate for my Pfaff 345 costs 750,- euro (960,- $). A needle plate for my Adler 204 costs 299,-Euro ( 382,- $)

You can get aftermarket parts like feet`s, shuttles and plates from Kwokhing.com to very good prices.

[seweng]

As a rough guide only

Pfaff colours

Grey = 1970’s and before

Yellow = 1980’s

White = 1990’s +

[Ash]

they have told me that is:

grey: 1980's

yellow: 1990's

white: 2000's

[seweng]

It’s only a rough guide and some of the colours may have entered the earlier part of the next decade. The white colour was definitely introduced in the 1990’s, so you can push the supplier of the Yellow machine for a discount as they will probably beware it’s an old revision. Make sure its supplied with the feet you need included in the price (Pfaff feet are expensive).

[Ash]

thanks for the details.

just a question: is possible to use a single needle machine as a 2-needle machine? I mean, is there an accessorize that permit to make a parallell stitch that can be used in one of the sewing machine above?

thanks

[seweng]

no, you can not use a single needle as a twin needle machine. They are different machines.

[Trox]

thanks for the details.

just a question: is possible to use a single needle machine as a 2-needle machine? I mean, is there an accessorize that permit to make a parallell stitch that can be used in one of the sewing machine above?

thanks

Normally not, however you can build the DA 267 in to a two needle with a special kit. Both needles will then use the same bobbin thread, so it will not become a true 2 needle machine. I think http://www.kwokhing.com/da/ have this kit, or It is available from Dürkopp Adler.

Trox

[Ash]

That's what I mean! Thanks a lot Trox.. This tip drive me toward the DA...

[Andrew Chee]

Normally not, however you can build the DA 267 in to a two needle with a special kit. Both needles will then use the same bobbin thread, so it will not become a true 2 needle machine. I think http://www.kwokhing.com/da/ have this kit, or It is available from Dürkopp Adler.

Trox

Are you sure about this? I don't see how you can have two needles feeding off the same bobbin. Do you have any pictures of such a conversion? I would be very interested in seeing one.

Andrew

[stolea]

I just bought a 1990's Pfaff 1245 in very good condition for $AU1200. It will replace a Seiko LSW-8L. I have used the Seiko from new for the past 25 years and have never been able to really make friends with it. Its one of those machines that works just fine........... until the pressure is on and you have to get a job done. And then it decides to drop stitches or create those annoying pearls of thread on the underside.

I also have a Pfaff 345 and love that machine. its like a swiss watch and never misses a beat even when it works well beyond its optimal range. And for the heavy stuff I have an Adler 205-370 (Gernany made!!) and a 1923 Pearson #6 that would sew plywood if it has to. In fact it has stitched leather to masonite. Not bad for a 90 year old machine. It has needles the size of knitting needles and produces the closest stitch appearance wise to hand stitching.

Edited March 8, 2013 by stolea

[stolea]

The 268 is the two needle version, the same as the 1246 is the two needle version of the 1245. They have 2 hooks and bobbins. That's why they have the same size throat plates on either side. its where the second hook and base goes.

[Gregg From Keystone Sewing]

We have a new 267 machine coming in from Durkopp Adler, already on order but not here, and no firm ETA.

Machines originally were from Germany, of course, and we after that had a pretty decent run on the Chinese 267-373 machines DA was offering for a number of years before they, again, stopped production. New model is coming in from China as well, is my understanding. The positive is that the older 267s will still be supported, even though Adler never ran out of replacement parts that I'm aware of at all with this model series.

[Anne Bonnys Locker]

I don't know about this model but DA bought Minerva in the Czech republic and they now produce a lot of machines for them. Minerva was quite a good manufacturer in the 60's.