Question Re: Landis Model 30 Crank Splitter

[beltman08]

I've been making belts somewhat casually for a couple of years. I usually just use the thicknesses of leather that I can buy, but decided some time ago that a splitter would be a good idea.

So, I purchased one of those inexpensive Neel's Saddlery pull type splitters on ebay a while back. It is just ok if kept extremely sharp, but once it dulls just a tiny bit, it's very difficult to use.

So, I decided that a crank splitter would be the perfect solution. I was finally able to acquire a Landis Model 30 and I've just had time to play around with it a little.

So far, I'm befuddled. Either I'm too dumb to figure out how to use it, it's set up wrong, or it won't function in the way I envisioned and need it to (or some combination thereof).

I'm therefore looking for some guidance.

Although I use chrome-tanned leather some, I didn't really figure it would be of much help splitting that unless it was very firm leather. But, I assumed that it would split veg tan leather without any problems. I figured I'd use it to split veg and if it did some chrome, that would be a bonus.

So, I've tried various pieces, various thicknesses, etc and still am having massive problems.

When I go to split a piece of say 8-9oz veg, the only way it will feed is if I have it on 4.5 setting or lower (a lot of times it won't feed unless it's on 3). When I do manage to get a piece to feed, it will only split to a very, very thin thickness of less than 1mm. When it splits on say setting 3 and is less than a mm, then I adjust to 4.5 and feed an identical piece, it splits where the top part is still less than a mm.

So, and sorry that this is hard to explain, but, what I'm trying to do (obviously) is split the various pieces so that I can get different thicknesses to use of say 4oz, 4.5, 5, etc. It might work if I could flip the leather over and have it shave that small amount off the back, but then the teeth of the feed roller would ruin the finish of the leather. Am I making sense?

When I set the adjustment lever any higher than 4.5 the leather won't feed at all.

The teeth on the feed roller seem pretty sharp. Everything seems to turn and work as it's supposed to. The blade seems relatively sharp as well.

Any ideas?

I'll be happy to take any pics that would help in diagnosing the problem.

Thanks in advance.

Wally

[Elton Joorisity]

Sounds to me like your blade isn't sharp ENOUGH. My dad has that splitter so I have a fair bit of experience with them. His used to do the same thing or else it would be splitting fine and then just dive through a piece. If you have a good piece of plate glass and various grits of Norton sand paper(I use this stuff to sharpen all my splitter blades) you can get yourself a really good edge. Finish the edge with a very fine paper(I use 20 micron or so) and then a leather strop loaded with polishing compound. Another big help is Herb French's book. It's the best $10 I ever spent to learn about sharpening leather tools. It is available through Sheridan Leather Outfitters.

[bruce johnson]

Wally,

Two suggestions. First off, the guy at Pilgrim Shoe Machine is trove of info on these old bench machines. A weblink that has a manual of sorts is landis splitter too. Not to sound smart, but it may be something as simple as a blade being upside down. I have seen that on one my buddy bought off ebay a few years back. Previous owner got disgusted because it wouldn't split and had it listed for parts. Also a dull blade or odd bevel can be a problem. These really need to be sharp, and maintained. Herb French has a great little book on sharpening. Sherdian Leather Outfitters sell it.

[beltman08]

OK, this will be a dumb question I'm sure. But, if say, I've got a piece of 8oz leather and I only need to make it 6oz. So, I'd only want to take off less than a mm of thickness. I'm now guessing from seeing this machine in action that this is not the machine to make that happen.

The reason is that there's not enough friction to make the piece feed. Now, if I need to make that 8oz piece 3oz then it would be fine because the friction between the rollers is enough to make it feed. Is this thinking correct?

BTW, I took the blade out and it was in the right orientation. It was sharp, but not super sharp. So, I sharpened it on 1000 grit paper, then on 2000 grit paper, then finished it off on a manila folder with rouge. Pretty darned sharp now.

It feeds a little better with the sharpened blade, but I'm still feeling like it might not be the machine for me because of the scenario I listed above. Often times I only need to take off a little (less than a mm) and this just doesn't seem to work like that.

I even tried feeding it on a lower setting and once it got started, changing to a higher setting. But, it didn't seem to like that either.

Still confused and frustrated.

Wally

[bruce johnson]

Wally,

I am not sure I am following your question. I had an American and the basic difference was it fed from the back and the Landis feeds from the front. All other things being equal, it should feed anything and split to any weiight within its specs. I used mine to level 16 oz, just taking a high edge off. I used it on 3oz to make cigarette paper thinknesses for lining. It should feed 8 oz and split it to whatever thickness you set it for.

Your question is making me think it is feed roller issue and not a blade. And now I am going to show one of my stupid things I did with the American. There is a set screw on the roller that binds it to the shaft turned by the crank. Dumb ol' me. I thought it was just a set screw and tightened against the shaft. When my blade started to get dull, it would slip and not feed. I would sharpen the blade to skin gnats, and it would feed just right, for a while. Then start slipping again. It was the serrated feed roller slipping on the shaft. I couldn't crank that set screw any tighter. I had asked this question on the Crispin group (boot and shoemakers) and thought about scuffing the tip of the set screw to get a bite on the shaft or putting a rubber disc in there to bind to the shaft more, and a kind hearted soul let me know about the set screw hole in the shaft. There is actually a drilled spot in that shaft for the set screw to seat into. When I tightened it and seated the set screw into the shaft, it couldn't slip and fed anything I could crank the handle on. I used a flashlight in the set screw hole, spun the roller until I found the seat hole on the shaft, lined it up and set the screw.

Came up that someone else had one that had done the same thing for years, spin and not feed when the blade got a little dull. They couldn't find the seat hole in the shaft. Ends up theirs had been taken apart for remilling the serrated wheel and re-assembled end for end. The set screw hole was at the opposite end of the set screw in the feed roller, and he was trying to bind against shaft like I was. Might be the issue either way.

[greg gomersall]

It sounds like the tension springs on the rollers are out of adjustmant. If you go to proleptic.net scroll down the left side to sewing machine manuals and then look for landis 30. they have a reprint of the manual for $6.00. It sounds like it would be money well spent. Greg

[beltman08]

Well, I'm not really explaining very well and much of what I'm spouting off is guesswork at best. I'll definitely look into the manual as I agree it would be money well spent.

Let me try to explain what I was getting at.

When I try to feed a piece that I only want to take a tiny bit off of or level, it doesn't seem to have enough pressure between the top smooth roller and the bottom toothed roller to feed the piece. The toothed roller does turn continuously and doesn't slip, so I think it's connected properly.

When I adjust the setting enough so that the piece will feed, it takes off way too much. So, the roller tension idea may be the answer. I'll check it out.

Thanks to everyone for the advice and sorry to be such a newbie.

[greg gomersall]

By increasing the spring tension on the rollars it should grab the leather and feed better for you. It needs tension to feed and it sounds like the way it is set the only way you are getting the required tension is by dialing it right down and you end up with a thin piece. If you can't get it to work let me know what you want for it. Greg

[beltman08]

I read the online manual excerpt and I think I have an additional problem. The blade looks like it has never been sharpened and is fairly new. However, there are small "breakouts" on each corner. From reading the manual, it looks like this could cause problems with getting the blade set correctly at the stops.

Could this be contributing to the issue that I'm having?

Looks like a regrind or replacement might be in order.

Also, the manual on proleptic shows to only be three pages. Is this the same one that's available online for free from bootmaker? If so, it's of no help with setting spring tension, etc. Just don't want to waste $7 if it's the same thing. Above that listing is a bigger manual and parts list for a Model 3. Is this a real Landis model or could that be a misprint for the full 30 manual?

Thanks.

[bruce johnson]

Wally,

I'm thinking like Greg here now. If the feedwheel isn't slipping, then the gap or pressure isn't right. You can tweak the pressure on the springs and gap with the adjusting screws and checknuts shown in the online manual. I would dang sure try it. The manual ShopTalk sells may well be the one that is on the bootmaker site. I have found that most of the old manuals are mainly a parts list and basic adjusting instructions. These machines and manuals were intended for use by people in the trade, and lot of assumptions regarding familiarity with using one in some manuals. .

A fair amount of the blades on these are broken out at the corners, just set the blade back where it should be, set the retaining screws to hold it and cinch it down. If you want to know what the manual ShopTalk is selling has, give him a call. He likes to talk about that kind of stuff. The Landis 3 is a stitcher and would have a manual that is bigger.