Tippmann Boss Problems

[usmc0341]

Here I am again on a Saturday afternoon trying to figure this machine out. I posted a while back and recieved a bunch of tips but I still can't get this thing stitching good enough to use on a customers holster! I will do a row of stitches to practice and it seems like the bobbin thread is ok for some stitches but then it's loose on other ones. The stitch length also seems to fluctuate. I just dot know what to do with this thing and my patience is running out quickly. I am considering getting rid of this and buying a cobra or artisan but I'm afraid if I can't work this thing there is no way ill be able to work something more technical!

Here's some pics to show what I'm talking about. Someone please help!

Thanks for the help,

Brian Crowl

[oldtimer]

To get consistent stitches it is important that you make a full stroke of the handle in the upper position ( both ways actually). It is on the up movement that your top thread will tighten the stitch and pull the bottom thread up into the leather. Also check that there is no play in the up take lever when the handle is in its upper position.

/ Knut former Boss wrestler, now happy Adler 205 owner

Edited February 9, 2013 by oldtimer

[usmc0341]

I have been very conscious to make sure I've been doing full up and down strokes and I just checked for play and didn't find any.

[TwinOaks]

when you stitch, does the leather move back at all as the needle is lifting? If so, it may be a presser foot tension problem. That would allow the machine to pull the right amount of thread for a certain length, but then the next stroke is shorter than it should be....that means there's 'spare' thread on the top. When the machine tensions the lockstitch on the upstroke, that spare thread is pulled tight instead of the bottom thread being pulled into the leather.

[billymac814]

In addition to the previous post, it looks like your bobbin tension is very high. I'd back it off some. Also I've found with mine I had to be very careful when winding the bobbin. If you're using a power drill or something its possible its pulling the thread way too tight on the bobbin. I got a hand powered drill and used that being very careful to wind it perfectly and not too tight. This will also cause the inconsistent stitch length because if the thread is really tight it'll pull the material back and make short stitches.

It took me a while to get all my kinks worked out before I was comfortable using it but it was a good learning experience on how to adjust the tension and once I figured it out I didn't have to mess with it much at all. . Another thing I did was replace the shuttle, mine was an old one that didn't have the set screw for the bobbin tension, it worked much better with the newer one.

[usmc0341]

I will have to check my presser foot tension, and also my bobbin tension. I did wind the bobbin with a power drill and it may be too tight. I seriously feel like an idiot with this thing!

I wish there was someone local that could give me a freakin tutorial on how to use it.

[billymac814]

I would definitely pay very close attention to your bobbin winding. You can use a power drill just make sure you go slow and don't pull or stretch the thread out when its winding. I used to use the tension disks of another machine to just barely keep enough tension on the thread to keep it from unraveling if I stopped winding. Once I figured that out it solved a lot of the problems I was having. Hopefully that makes sense. Good luck, and you never know, if you post where you live someone may be close enough that could help.

[trekster]

If you are careful to make sure each stroke is consistent and against the limit stops, then there are only three main adjustments that can influence stitch consistency. 1.) Thread tensions (needle and bobbin), 2.) Machine timing and 3.) Presser foot tension.

If you have the video instruction from Tippmann, I would start out by setting the thread tensions according to what they recommend. Machine timing can be varied by both the stop bolt in the base of the machine, the separation of the two halves of the rack gear pieces and the drive gear on the shuttle shaft.

Inconsistent stitch length is generally associated with improper presser foot tension.

[Hauss]

Hi Brian just looking at your and Bill's profile U are about 2 1/2 hour ride to where he is see if he has time to help and take a ride maybe both of U end up with another good friend! It's just a thought

[billymac814]

I was wondering why I could never see people's location in their profile, as it turns out it is not visible in the mobile version.

Bryan,

If you want to throw your boss in the car and make the trip to Altoona Ill give you as much info as I can and hopefully get it set up right. You can also give a cowboy a test drive, I will forewarn you though, you will want one.

[SOB Holsters]

Which cowboy do you have billy?

[billymac814]

Which cowboy do you have billy?

I have the 4500.

[usmc0341]

I was wondering why I could never see people's location in their profile, as it turns out it is not visible in the mobile version.

Bryan,

If you want to throw your boss in the car and make the trip to Altoona Ill give you as much info as I can and hopefully get it set up right. You can also give a cowboy a test drive, I will forewarn you though, you will want one.

I may just take you up on that! I would like to have someone who knows what they are doing show me what I'm doing wrong.

[particle]

I would suggest confirming the tension is set properly (according to the manual as a starting point), and of course the machine is threaded properly. I believe the procedure was to loosen the primary and secondary tension nuts all the way, then from the point the nuts make first contact with the springs, the secondary should be turned two full turns, and the primary should be turned 1 1/2 turns. Once you've done that, loosen the locking nut on the bobbin case, then adjust the bobbin tension until your thread knot is buried in the leather, then lock the bobbin case screw. Once you've sewn with it a while and are comfortable with how it's stitching, take a permanent marker and draw a line so you can visually tell if the nuts have moved - because they will if you accidentally bump them while threading the machine....

Now, you may already know all of that. The next thing I'd suggest is to avoid using too much pressure on the presser foot so it doesn't mark up the leather. But, by doing this, you need to deliberately push the leather into the machine as you stitch. Not hard, but just enough to make sure it doesn't slip backwards as you push the lever forward, pulling tension on the thread (causing the leather to slip back towards you).

As a side note, make sure the thread take-up lever doesn't drop immediately after you start to pull the hand crank back towards you. If it drops, it'll cause a loop in the thread and mess up your stitching. You simply need to tighten slightly the "HS 98-3" bolt that secures the take-up lever.

Nothing wrong with winding a bobbin with a drill, just make sure you don't wind it too tight, and make sure you zig-zag the thread on the bobbin like an open-face fishing reel would do.

The Boss is a great machine, and capable of producing just as nice a stitch as the powered machines - it's a fantastic machine for holsters. But, it's only a needle feed, so it does have limitations that you'll need practice to overcome.

[usmc0341]

Hi Brian just looking at your and Bill's profile U are about 2 1/2 hour ride to where he is see if he has time to help and take a ride maybe both of U end up with another good friend! It's just a thought

Thanks for all the tips everyone but I'm going to take a ride to Altoona and have Bill show me how to use this thing. I'm looking forward to learning from him!

[SOB Holsters]

Hopefully you have worked out your machine by now, trust me, I am feeling your pain! I am on my 2nd new boss in a week, and I still have flippin problems! Well, I did up until about an hour ago. I am under the assumption these machines are "new", but after disassembling the shuttle and hook, I'm not so sure. This thing was missing stitches right out of the box! Followed all of their trouble shooting that was included in the manual, and nothing. The hook was just baaarely missing the loop, but not every time. Took the front end apart and found the shuttle driver is so sloppy, that it has to be an old part. You can see wear marks and everything. The flat of the shaft bore on the driver was oblonged, where it should sit tightly on its shaft. McGyver'd it and it works great now, But you bet they'll be hearing from me in a few hours.

[TwinOaks]

And that is one of the other nice features of the Boss....easily able to put it in the car for a trip.

[usmc0341]

I just wanted to hop on and thank everyone for the tips and help with my Tippmann. I just got back from McCabes Custom Leather in Altoona where I got to meet Billy and see his shop (which I'm very jealous of), and he got this thing running like a champ in less than 2 hours. It's not often someone takes time away from their work to help another person out but once again this forum and the people on it are awesome! Thanks again Billy!

[trekster]

Real glad to hear you got the Boss working to your satisfaction. Maybe it would be good if you shared some of your experience at McCabes and highlight some of the major things that were done to your machine that resulted in the "fix". Probably could help others who might be wrestling with similar issues.

[SOB Holsters]

Well done Billy.

And I second the posting of the fix it list.

[usmc0341]

It's hard to really list what all he fixed up, but he pulled a lot of it apart and cleaned and oiled it. The thread I was using was part of the issue because I think it was really old. He rewound my bobbin which he did much better then how I did it. And lastly he ground a little off the inside of my presser foot because the needle thing (needle guide maybe?) was hitting the presser foot occasionally. All in all the thing operates more smoothly now and it sounds completely different, it sounds smoother if that makes sense. And an added bonus was getting to pick his brain about his holsters which I also got to see in person and I can say his leatherwork is amazing. I felt bad eating up half of his morning because he had people constantly in and out of his shop and you could just tell he was busy, but he didn't make me feel rushed and he took his time getting it running smooth. Just an awesome guy. And his shop has everything a leatherworker could dream of having! I can't wait to make a holster with this thing and give my hands a break. Thanks again.

[trekster]

Just a couple of additional questions.

1) What size needle and thread did this new setup involve; and how were the thread tensions set?

2) When he rewound the bobbin; how was it different than how you had it wound? Looser? Tighter? Zigzag?

[usmc0341]

Just a couple of additional questions.

1) What size needle and thread did this new setup involve; and how were the thread tensions set?

2) When he rewound the bobbin; how was it different than how you had it wound? Looser? Tighter? Zigzag?

The thread and needle is the same that I had before the 277/207 (I'm pretty sure thats what it is). As far as the the bobbin, he just took his time winding it keeping it exactly the same back and forth. I'm not the best at describing it, but hopefully you get what I'm saying. He also wound it tighter then I did.

[billymac814]

To list what I did.

I adjusted the bottom stop just a little.

Rewound the bobbin, nothing special here but I always found with mine that if I take it slow and make sure the thread isn't stretching or anything that I get much more consistent bobbin tension.

The needle guide would hit the presser foot when coming down and not go in between the foot so I beveled the edges off of the inside of the foot. This is how my foot was, I don't know whet here or not mine was done at the factory or not and I don't know whether his was a Tippmann foot or not, they were clearly very different in how they were made but mine was older than his. I'd be curious to see pictures of other people's presser feet on thier boss.

Switched thread. I can't explain that really but it definitely did not like that one spool of thread for some reason.

I oiled the shuttle area and cleaned it up

Adjusted the presser foot pressure.

Lastly I balanced out the tension. I just backed off all tension and added it until the knot was balanced and the stitches looked good.

I think that was about it but it was a totally different machine than when it came which goes to show you it really doesn't take much for them not to be working right.

It was nice meeting you Brian.

[trekster]

Thanks a lot.... very helpful.