Adler 205-64 Sewing Machine

[Trox]

That would be the CM Cerliani hooks. Those parts you bought was very cheap, nothing is made in Europe anymore. Apart from parts that is not in use on new machines anymore. A binder needle plate for the 345 costs 950 $, and all the syncro binding parts together costs 1887 $ (genuine Pfaff). These parts are hand made in Germany. I only paid 500 $ for the old machine, so I think that was a bit much to use on a old machine.(Upholstery type triple feed are very cheap here, because nobody need them anymore. Dealer only want to sell new machines)

Luckily a friend gave all those binder parts for free, he had them laying around after a machine he had sold. That kind of answering your question, if those parts you bought was made in Germany they would have cost you much more. Most of the German machines are now made in China anyway, some DA and Pfaff classes might be made other places. It way to expensive to produce them in Europe or in the USA. And when the owners mostly are Chinese too, they will be made at the lowest cost.

However, they are still made to German spec and the company name and support are behind it. I have A Chinese machine and I have not had any problem with it yet. With the kind of hours my machines get (one man shop), I could do well with only Chinese machines. And just buy a new one when the trouble started.

When it comes to Kwokhing, I find their stuff surprisingly well made. Everybody uses their drop-down guides, they sell for 100 to 150$ on Ebay and by US dealers. I pay 25 $ for them and they are very good, in fact this company has the best solutions on guides available. Pfaff and Adler feet`s 10 - 15 $ and again very innovative solutions. One out of ten has a minor molding excess or other minor fault. To that price I can live with it. And the best thing, these guys give you top service when you buy small amounts too. Normally they serve big factories and dealer, but they find it interesting to have contact with the people who use their stuff too.

I would have traded you my 345 for that Adler 169 any day, my Pfaff is in good working condition. I feel the same way, I know the Adler machine better. I have parts and knowledge about them.

My 345 has (bla...bla....bla.......etc):

a Cobra servo, speed reducer, drop-down guide (roller and straight) and binder feed. Comes with Original syncro binder gear and all kinds of different feet`s ( about 15 different). Binder plate and regular plate. Smooth, binder and regular feed dog, extra hook and bobbin cases.... you name it. Only thing I do not like is the stand, its only a cut out. Thats temporary, I will make an other stand with short table. I think I will use a one column, because I need the space. I have just adjusted it and it sews as a champ (all parameters). But the Shipping would be a killer, maybe head only. I still think it will be to much.

Thanks

Tor

[leatherdog]

that's a pretty high price for pfaff binder parts. interesting that upholstery machines are cheap. a used 545, clutch motor, would go for 800 to $1200. of the ones i sold, i got 500 for one head, wish i hadn't sold that one so cheap. the rest of them, table stand and motor, went for 800 to 1200, and the white ones went for more. the white one with needle position i got 1800. funny thing, i prefer the older ones. but people like new. sometimes new is not better.

looking at your photos, i see the folded edge binding. we could never do that with our leather. too stretchy. in fact, we don't use it at all in a binder. would drive us insane. or more insane.

as for feet, we use the same foot all day, every day, even with zippers. noted the trade idea. shipping would be the end of that idea. just boxing up the head is a challenge.

i think we are in the stone age out here. nothing modern. but, we get the job done. the biggest challenge is marketing, and making an actual profit.

[leatherdog]

That would be the CM Cerliani hooks. Those parts you bought was very cheap, nothing is made in Europe anymore. Apart from parts that is not in use on new machines anymore. A binder needle plate for the 345 costs 950 $, and all the syncro binding parts together costs 1887 $ (genuine Pfaff). These parts are hand made in Germany. I only paid 500 $ for the old machine, so I think that was a bit much to use on a old machine.(Upholstery type triple feed are very cheap here, because nobody need them anymore. Dealer only want to sell new machines)

Luckily a friend gave all those binder parts for free, he had them laying around after a machine he had sold. That kind of answering your question, if those parts you bought was made in Germany they would have cost you much more. Most of the German machines are now made in China anyway, some DA and Pfaff classes might be made other places. It way to expensive to produce them in Europe or in the USA. And when the owners mostly are Chinese too, they will be made at the lowest cost.

However, they are still made to German spec and the company name and support are behind it. I have A Chinese machine and I have not had any problem with it yet. With the kind of hours my machines get (one man shop), I could do well with only Chinese machines. And just buy a new one when the trouble started.

When it comes to Kwokhing, I find their stuff surprisingly well made. Everybody uses their drop-down guides, they sell for 100 to 150$ on Ebay and by US dealers. I pay 25 $ for them and they are very good, in fact this company has the best solutions on guides available. Pfaff and Adler feet`s 10 - 15 $ and again very innovative solutions. One out of ten has a minor molding excess or other minor fault. To that price I can live with it. And the best thing, these guys give you top service when you buy small amounts too. Normally they serve big factories and dealer, but they find it interesting to have contact with the people who use their stuff too.

I would have traded you my 345 for that Adler 169 any day, my Pfaff is in good working condition. I feel the same way, I know the Adler machine better. I have parts and knowledge about them.

My 345 has (bla...bla....bla.......etc):

a Cobra servo, speed reducer, drop-down guide (roller and straight) and binder feed. Comes with Original syncro binder gear and all kinds of different feet`s ( about 15 different). Binder plate and regular plate. Smooth, binder and regular feed dog, extra hook and bobbin cases.... you name it. Only thing I do not like is the stand, its only a cut out. Thats temporary, I will make an other stand with short table. I think I will use a one column, because I need the space. I have just adjusted it and it sews as a champ (all parameters). But the Shipping would be a killer, maybe head only. I still think it will be to much.

Thanks

Tor

Tor

here's a few photos. you can see the 205 64 behind the 167 373. note the dust

and brush of rust. also is a photo of the extra machines. in the photo there

are three 545s, one of them has a a spaghetti folder. also a 145, which we use

for binding nyon tape. a 138 in the back. you can see the two adlers, and in

front, a pfaff 141. needle feed with roller foot. the cowboy boot guys really like

these things. none of these are used much, if at all. the 205, 169 and 141

have never been used by us. and, just for fun a photo of another machine. i

bet there aren't many around. you can probably see what it does. only the

truly immersed leather nut will know the name of this machine.

[Trox]

Hi, I have never seen a 545 for over 500$ here. If so it would be at Amatec, the dealer. They want to sell new machines so they turn up the used prices. Flatbed triple feed Pfaff, Adler and Singer are sold very cheap here because there are no demand for them. No industry left, no craftsmen left here anymore. We produce oil,fish, aluminum and some other raw material. Nobody can afford to pay for producing anything here anymore.

The only machines you can get any money for are heavy stitcher's, and triple feed cylinder beds. People who want to repair their horse tack are looking for them.

The binder who is on the machine now is one I bought from Kwokhing. I am not finish setting it up, I still miss the Binder plate. I have the binder feed dog who is 10 mm wide. I have ordered a plate from Kwokhing with 10 mm slot, I am cutting out the rest from it to allow the movement of the syncro bar. I do not want to cut in a original Pfaff plate, I have never seen a needle plate that hard before. I do not think I have any thing that will cut in it, without ruin the steel tempering. A plate from Kwokhing costs only 54 $, I believe it will be much easier to cut in than the Pfaff plate. I will be using the binders for both leather, polyester and vinyl. I sometimes do some furnishing and car upholstery too. I can use them on both the Pfaff and the Adler flatbed machine. A second hand binder from Amatec was 100$ and new from Kwokhing is 10 $ each.

Talking about the stone age, I am currently setting up my newly acquired 1953 mod Sandt clicking machine. It is a German Electromechanical swing arm clicker, I am installing a frequency converter because I have only single phase current in my work shop. I also need to a new polyethylene board on top of the old wooden cutting block, the wood is not hard enough.

Used clicking machines are hard to find over here. This was for sale to 1000 $ two years ago, now I got it for free because the owner was forced to find a new job. He could not support him self on the leather work anymore, and the clicker was left behind in the workshop and needed to be moved out. I could have it for free if I removed it.

It was a tough job to get it in to my little workshop, we was four guys but I nearly broke my back on it. I guess the weight is about 450 kg.

It was a sad story the seller had to leave his dream, he has a small workshop in his home still. I decided to give him a discount on a heavy stitcher, he needs a machine for heavy threads and I have three for sale.

You see on the picture, it no hydraulic on this machine and it is built like a German Tiger tank. Now I only have to find the right density polyethylene board for it and I am good to go. I maybe giving it a touch of hamerite paint too.

You would not happen to know anything about clicking machine boards? It would be easy to just buy one in your country. However the shipping will be three times the board alone (300 $).

There is a company making polyethylene here in Oslo (it is a Oil related product). They offered me a white high density 500 polyethylene plate, the size of the board and one inch thick ( about 100 $). I do not know anything about the hardness grading of polyethylene, I would not want to buy something to soft. It would make the dies stick in the board as they do in the wood after a bit.

I have topic in Leather tool about it, but nobody seems to know anything or want to answer it anyway.

About marketing,

I have a friend who has a moving company. He used Google adwards ( pay for click on demands), you only pay for the customers who click on you ad. Not like putting your ad on TV or a news paper, then you must pay for all people. He told me this was the best he could get for the money. The more people who are clicking on your add, the more money you make too. They are seeking your service, and are potential your future clients. He made it up successful in a very competitive business.

Tor

[leatherdog]

we use red pads. you can inquire at any of the leather machinery dealers. they are a common item, everyone's price is about the same. but i don't know the details. we've used gray, white, but mostly red. the big deal is keeping the pad planed flat. make sure the wood block it sits on is flat. you can use double side tape to hold it in place, or just let it sit there, and move around. it won't matter. . pads - i bet you can get them in italy, france, germany. one inch thick, won't allow for much planing. nice to start out thicker. but if you aren't cutting all day everyday, it should last quite a while. sandt - they had them here, hydraulic, in the 70s. also pedersen, from denmark. i've had those. qutie nice. right now, the common machine is italian. different brands, but i think they are all the same

auto upholstery - that interests me. different details of work from what i do now. how to get the door panels off, do the seats, all those details. i met some guy who did hot rods, and had some good success at the roadster shows. interesting world, but i can just imagine making a mistake on someone else's car.

your binder plate - why not get the hong kong guys to make it a bit wider. as for opening it up, grinding, not filing. i bet i could put a gray 545 on craigslist, and sell it for over $1000. the challenge is finding one to buy. there is still a small leather industry here, but not 10% of what it used to be. lots of boat cover, awning, upholstery people.

have fun

Peter

[Trox]

Hi Peter,

Thats the only thing who is left of the industry here too, awning, furniture and auto upholsteries. I am a trained car mechanic and have worked with that before, so auto upholstery should be right in the spot for me. However, I find no pleasure in it, I kind of got an overdose of cars in my younger days. You could always find me under a car, thats where my friends first looked after me when they come to visit.

Now its all computers, components changing and plastic.... I wish I lived hundred years ago when steel was steel and wood was wood, and not made of plastic.

Speak about plastic, today I went down to the plastic company and checked out the stuff my self. I turned out they did not make the stuff here anymore, they could do it but it would be to expensive. It looks like the boards sold in the USA has Rockwell scale of hardness, here they used something else (like always). However, the stuff was very hard and I bought one for the machine and thinner one for my work bench. He told me the color had nothing to do with the harness. They used to sell them to butcher stores, the red was for meat, the white for fish and so on. I bought the HD 500, it came in one grade harder too; the HD 1000. They did not have the HD 1000 in stock, I will try this out first and upgrade later if necessary.

How do you keep them planed flat, do you plan them with a machine? Want it just stick to the blade?

Yes the Italians makes most of the leather machines now a days. I have a Italian skiving machine that is very nicely made. The European leather machine dealers go to Italy all the time to buy machines, they make good deals down there right now (its hard times in southern Europe right now). This dealer sells used German and Italian machines and the prices are high. http://www.sieck.de/en/sieck-international/ We and the Germans are about the two only European countries who is not affected by the economical crisis.

I hope for better time soon or else the center of Europe Will be named Oslo, they mass immigrates here to work. Also the ones who do not intend to work comes here to live on us as beggars. They now try to forbid begging in Oslo, the politicians will not have their conscience tested every day when they walk to work. The way I see it , you cannot forbid someone to beg, it easier to stop them on the border and demand they have enough money to support them self while they are here. Thats the way they do it everywhere else, but here they are to stupid to figure it out.

We talk later,

Tor

[leatherdog]

_{planing, i used to take the pad to a wood guy. block planer. but, he decided no more. you can do a crude job with a router, knocking down the high spots, which will be around the edges, the corners. the board does not have to be totally flat. but, at the beginning, the wood under it should be totally flat, and stay that way. if you let the plastic pad get too much like a bowl, it will bend the dies. all this is not the end of the world, but flat is best. the machine i use is a custom thing a machinist made for me. fly cutter on an electric motor, on a swinging arm. you won't find one like it anywhere. you can also use a belt sander, but taking a lot of plastic down with that is ugly and messy. oh, and cut evenly all over the pad. not just in your favorite spot, right in the middle.}

_{plastic in cars. well, you can stay with the cars pre mid 60s. lots of nice things there.}

Edited May 30, 2013 by leatherdog

[PcCowboy]

_{you mentioned the service manual. i found on the internet a crude document, it was poorly translated and covered a couple different adlers. maybe just a few pages. is there another one out there?}

_thanks

I have the repair manual that came with mine. I could copy what pages you need and email them to you.

[leatherdog]

PcCowboy

gee, that would be great. i just sent you an email.......

Peter

[Trox]

Tor

here's a few photos. you can see the 205 64 behind the 167 373. note the dust

and brush of rust. also is a photo of the extra machines. in the photo there

are three 545s, one of them has a a spaghetti folder. also a 145, which we use

for binding nyon tape. a 138 in the back. you can see the two adlers, and in

front, a pfaff 141. needle feed with roller foot. the cowboy boot guys really like

these things. none of these are used much, if at all. the 205, 169 and 141

have never been used by us. and, just for fun a photo of another machine. i

bet there aren't many around. you can probably see what it does. only the

truly immersed leather nut will know the name of this machine.

Hi Peter,

Thanks for the explanation of the routering, I would love to see a pic of that fly- cutter machine. I did not see these machine pictures before after I posted the last post.

That 169 looks very nice, I would have sold my grand mother to get my hands of it (if I had one, I don't). It have a stop motor too, I know we would work out a trade if we was not that far apart.

I hope we do not totally take over this topic, I know we do. But please tell us to leave and we will.

Many nice other machines there too.

The Omac machine; first I thought of a belt folding machine, but it have no attachment on the front. I guess it is a hot roller press machine. I can see the press lever on the left and the red light who lights up when it is warm enough, just a guess. I know the brand, its Italian and commonly found here in Europe too.

That Adler 169 looks very clean, I got to figure out some reasonable shipping options between here and the States. Her I cannot get much for second hand machines, but in your country I can. Most of my tools and parts I have to buy in USA. I already have a US shipping address, its a New Jersey mailbox run by a Norwegian company. I use it when I buy tools from you, where the sellers do not offer international shipping. I have to pay a bit more this way, but at least I get what I want. I have to check how to ship reasonable the other direction, I will work on it.

I am sure there are some methods that can be used without loosing all the profit.

OK we talk later

have a nice day

Tor