Problem with Fiebing pro oil dyes

[TomSwede]

1).This is getting to my nerves now. I get this problem alot. There are certain areas that simply wont take the dye like the rest. It seems like it soaks right up leving no residue left on surface and looks like crap. With black I have just put saddletan on top and problem solved and luckily enough I have only had this with reds that are about to be antiqued. I apply with a sponge with a cloth over and just dauber it on. I have less problem with this when I dye everything black but with stuff where I have to really be careful where I put the sponge seem to be more prone to the problem.

I applied black about 5 times on the showing pic. The problem is also visible in small spots in the center motif.

Could the sponging on be the problem and if so..why? I never had this with the Danish spirit dye I used earlier with the same applying technique.

2). How would you put the red dye to the tooled centermotif. It needs to be depressed for the motif to work. It looks kinda cool I think but wasn't really supposed to be that uneven in colour. I used a diluted red that sometimes isn't red enough for me so figured I could brush it on carefully with good result HA! NOT!

Colouring before tooling? Problem seem to be that different areas have a tad different compression allow lesser compressed areas to soak up more dye making it dark red (it is harder tooled at the edges than in center).

Thanks in advance

Tom

Edited August 27, 2008 by TomSwede

[Roger]

i always clean the leather before dyeing it.

the residue left from the black oil dye is normal. i buff off ass much as possible then use some lexol and buff again. that generally gets rid of any left over residue.

i find red to not be an easy color to get uniform. i try and airbrush as mush as i can for even coverage but that's not an option with what you are doing unless you dye the whole thing red then black over the black areas

[TomSwede]

Black over red doesn't give true black ( in my experience, perhaps more layers of black would do the trick. I'll test that) but cool effect for sure. http://www.1eye1.se/armband/Batbracer%20AP%20gold01.jpg

I actually thought an airbrush would be the only good tool for this.

What do you clean with? alcohol?

I've buffed of the residue now but the matted areas still look more matted. I have the feeling somehow that the areas that keeps the residue looks more black and buff better. The areas on the sides of the red can't keep the residue on top, it just soaks in. I'd expect the opposite if it was a problem from not cleaning up wich I admit I didn't do.

I'm going to use acrylic sealer and I'm always scared that itwill not bond correctly if I use stuff like neatsfoot, lexol, oliveoil or whatever event though I have tried oliveoil for a leather that simply wouldn't soak up any dyes. Cleaned that with alcohol and oiled the whole pice.

This is an important customer so don't want to have the acrylics sealer flaking off!

Thank you for your help Roger!

[UKRay]

Tom, I've just had a similar problem with a strange, almost invisible, greasy patch on the surface of the leather that I missed at first. I got around it by cleaning the whole tooled area with methylated spirit. I had already applied a bit of dye when I realised I had a problem but I cleaned up using a wool daub and neat meths and the rest of the job went okay. Now that could have been because the only bit that had guck on it was the bit that showed up and resisted the colour... either way, the cleanup worked and the dye went on easily after that. You will need to put something back into the leather if you use meths as it is pretty astringent stuff.

Hope it works for you. Meths is cheap enough or you could always use vodka at a push!

[TomSwede]

Tom, I've just had a similar problem with a strange, almost invisible, greasy patch on the surface of the leather that I missed at first. I got around it by cleaning the whole tooled area with methylated spirit. I had already applied a bit of dye when I realised I had a problem but I cleaned up using a wool daub and neat meths and the rest of the job went okay. Now that could have been because the only bit that had guck on it was the bit that showed up and resisted the colour... either way, the cleanup worked and the dye went on easily after that. You will need to put something back into the leather if you use meths as it is pretty astringent stuff.

Hope it works for you. Meths is cheap enough or you could always use vodka at a push!

The problem is that it doesn't resist colour it just absorbs it lika sponge. Perhaps you mean that it sinks in and kinda goes around the top surface leaving it like a spot? Could be so. Not sure I dare do anything more to it now. The edges will be cut down so part of the problem area disappears and the rest will be cluttered with eyelets and string but there are a few tiny spots left on the main motif that I maybe try to clean and touch up. I sleep on it to tomorrow, better get a look at it in daylight aswell.

I post two more pics now. One is the revealing one and the other shows the dyejob more like it is in reality.

Thanks for you input guys, it's worth so much!

Tom

Edited August 27, 2008 by TomSwede

[BillB]

Tom,

Have you used a deglazer cleaner before dyeing?

Fiebing's is made from ethyl acetate. I use it to remove any oil based contaminants before I use any type of dye. I have oily hands that can leave a residual that then affects how the leather takes the dye, e.g. splotching. I have found it also helps to keep the texture of smooth leather smooth. Since I have been using it, the consistency of the dye on large areas has improved greatly.

BillB.

[whinewine]

1).This is getting to my nerves now. I get this problem alot. There are certain areas that simply wont take the dye like the rest. It seems like it soaks right up leving no residue left on surface and looks like crap. With black I have just put saddletan on top and problem solved and luckily enough I have only had this with reds that are about to be antiqued. I apply with a sponge with a cloth over and just dauber it on. I have less problem with this when I dye everything black but with stuff where I have to really be careful where I put the sponge seem to be more prone to the problem.

I applied black about 5 times on the showing pic. The problem is also visible in small spots in the center motif.

Could the sponging on be the problem and if so..why? I never had this with the Danish spirit dye I used earlier with the same applying technique.

2). How would you put the red dye to the tooled centermotif. It needs to be depressed for the motif to work. It looks kinda cool I think but wasn't really supposed to be that uneven in colour. I used a diluted red that sometimes isn't red enough for me so figured I could brush it on carefully with good result HA! NOT!

Colouring before tooling? Problem seem to be that different areas have a tad different compression allow lesser compressed areas to soak up more dye making it dark red (it is harder tooled at the edges than in center).

Thanks in advance

Tom

Tom: could it be the leather itself? (like some areas of the leather are spongy & suck up dye like a ...sponge...? And other areas are hard, perhaps, & very resistant to the dye?) . Just a speculation on my part. I've had some leather that didn't accept dye very well & some areas just sucked it up. I think perhaps some spongy areas were 'fat' areas that were stretchy & didn't have the 'body' that the rest of the leather has. When you get around the belly areas, you sometimes see this effect.

russ

[TomSwede]

Tom,

Have you used a deglazer cleaner before dyeing?

Fiebing's is made from ethyl acetate. I use it to remove any oil based contaminants before I use any type of dye. I have oily hands that can leave a residual that then affects how the leather takes the dye, e.g. splotching. I have found it also helps to keep the texture of smooth leather smooth. Since I have been using it, the consistency of the dye on large areas has improved greatly.

BillB.

As stated before I did not clean it. It's ineteresting that you mention oily hands 'cuz when I think about it might be so I putting my thumbs or fingers down on the side because it's a natural thing for me to avoid hands on the main tooling area as much as possible. In the beginning I did scratch the leather alot with my nails so I developed techniques to avoid touching it too much but I mostly put my fingers on the edges as far as I know but could be I unintentionally put my fingers on the sides since I started with backing using packing tape and got a marble table top wich causes the leather to slide easily.

Still, I need an explanation for some small spots that are the same prob as on the sides. They are small and doesn't look like coming from the fingers.

Thanks for you input Bill. I keep an eye on where my fingers are when I'm tooling later today.

Tom

Edited August 28, 2008 by TomSwede

[TomSwede]

Tom: could it be the leather itself? (like some areas of the leather are spongy & suck up dye like a ...sponge...? And other areas are hard, perhaps, & very resistant to the dye?) . Just a speculation on my part. I've had some leather that didn't accept dye very well & some areas just sucked it up. I think perhaps some spongy areas were 'fat' areas that were stretchy & didn't have the 'body' that the rest of the leather has. When you get around the belly areas, you sometimes see this effect.

russ

This is also interesting, YES I'm working my way down towards the belly now and it's not the same leather as I got off from the back. Less density and perhaps a wee bit thinner too . Just hope it harden allright when I wetform it. I usually get nice bracers with theese pieces too but I did get this problem on the black and orange fishingrod tube wich was taken about 16" down from the back (cut neck to butt) so I saddletanned it all and got a very nice and smooth black there. I know I got this problem also with red oil dye on the same hide, either it was the first tube or Lailas purse. Those luckily enough had that fat mahogany treatment that I did a tutorial with.

Thank you for the input Russ!

You have all come up with fine and interesting results and I'm gonna print and hang this one over my workingtable in the future!

Tom

[carr52]

I have ended up with what looks like water stains. I thought it was me until now. So if I clean it with something that will help? Cause I really like the Fiebings colors.

Tom

[TomSwede]

If it looks like water stains it suggests that something has been spilled onto it so maybe the good useful pointers I've gotten here is worth considering. My splotches is not any way near looking like something that was spilled on.

Tom

[BillB]

Tom,

I forgot to mention that after I have tooled the leather and cleaned it with a deglazer, I will spread a paper towel or clean cloth over the areas of the piece I am not staining, especially when I am doing detailed work with a small brush since I tend to rest the side of my hand on the work itself. This helps to keep the leather clean and free of my body oils.

BillB.

[Ian]

Tom, can't add anything that hasn't already been said, but that pattern is beautiful!

[TomSwede]

Tom, can't add anything that hasn't already been said, but that pattern is beautiful!

Thank you Ian!

I drew it myself for once so I'm proud of it but wanna thank Schno because I'd never thunk of it if it wasn't for his DaVinci inspired Artisan Skincraft logo though I didn't have his logo at hand so it's not copied straight off.

I can add also that I used the back of an toothbrush with a taped piece of thin sponge and cloth and blockdyed over the red cuts. I cannot emphasis the importance of smoothing around the lines before doing this. I did that to the point of perfection...I thought.... but had to use dried out childrens felt tip pen to do some touch ups anyway.

I think customer likes it too 'cuz he's allready planning for the next one in same fashion but with viking runes from their biker club logo but so far He has only seen it online, same pics as here but smaller.

Tom