211G155 Do I Have The Wrong Machine

[g3engr]

You will be able able to get your machine running I'm sure. Probably with little cost. I am headed to Ralph's Industrial Sewing in Denver today to try and talk Joe into sponsoring a test I'm doing, which consist of modifying the bobbin case for the 211 and its clones. This has allowed me to run 346 top and 207 thead on the bottom on a 211U566. I'm told you can't do it but you can. And guess what? You can sew it without turning the hand wheel with low tension on top thread using as Quiet Sew servo set on a low 200RPM (this is the lowest torque range for a servo). All with a 135x16 needle size 24. I need to get a 25 needle so as not to frey the thread. I've seen them on Ebay but not in stores. By the way that's penetrating a piece of hard leather 1/8" thick. Think belt.

Regards again Grant

[Trox]

Big but no leather stitcher.

Some years ago I bought a triple feed Singer 144W-305 with a 30 inch arm. It was a gray color machine in good condition and I got it very cheap, I thought it may be useful on heavy leather. It is a bigger version of a 111W and the 112W. It has a one inch foot lift, XXL hook and can sew with very thick thread. I used tex 400 top and bottom on it, but it could handle more than that. This machine was made for sewing car door panels, it could easily sew upholstery leather on to wooden fiber plates.

Nevertheless, it was not very useful as a leather stitcher. For sewing heavy leather you need a machine horizontal shuttle hook and preferable triple feed. This type of shuttle can handle much more thread tension before skipping stitches or braking needles. I traded it in a Adler 105 top and bottom feed cylinder-bed. It only have a foot lift of 3/8 inch but can sew more than twice as thick leather with the same heavy thread. That`s because the Adler has a horizontal shuttle hook that can handle the extra thread tension needed to sew heavy leather with thick thread. Today I use a 441 clone to sew my heavy leather.

Tor

[miaoreo]

HELP PLEASE

1. Grant wrote... and others suggested.. to " Remove your bobbin case (remove three tiny screws) and inspect where the thread exits the bobbin case and ensure no burrs and that no thread is wrapped around the hook shaft"

These are the tiniest screw heads imaginable... My jewelers screwdrivers are too long to fit under the machine and be straight up and down to remove the screws. What kind of screwdrivers do you have/where to get them to take the bobbin case out????

2. See attached picture. This is underside of 2 layers of garment leather. Uninterrupted line of stitching except to lift and turn at the point of the diamond. Still getting LOOPS on the bottom. But intermittently, sews fine, then loops.

Oh and I changed the needle... still breaks the thread.

Edited May 10, 2013 by miaoreo

[g3engr]

That is too funny, you think that's a small screw wait till I have you tighten the bobbin case screw. I removed two last night and changed bobbin case springs even put on a head mounted magnifier. Get ready.(smile) not that bad but you do need a few tools, but very few at that. Go to ACE hardware, or a sewing machine store. Make sure you magnetize your screw driver tip also or you'll spend all you time picking up screw that can generally make their way into the oil pan. I also believe a must have tool are the small tweezers with the curved ends like doctors use when handling thread when doing internal surgery. Handy for me as I have hugh hands to match size 14 shoes. They use to have a set of screw drivers that fit inside a screw driver and on and on till the smallest required a magnifier to see and too small to handle. I'm still looking for my set but someone glum onto them. Also a very long narrow blade 12 " or longer is very helpful as it lets you get the handle out of the way for a more perpendicular angle for foot plate, throat place etc. Next buy a ream of 24 LB. printer paper for sewing and using as a feeler gage in case you don't have a set. Each sheet is .004" thick 100 sheets .400 or just under 7/16" etc.

Eric gave a very good order of operations formate that should help you as you adjust your machine,however, the first thing I would like you to do is 1) turn off machine insert on sheet of paper under pressers 2) with needle out of the machine and no thread turn flywheel while slightly tugging on the paper. It should be pull through the machine and if you tug too hard on paper to resist feed, the machine should tear it. If you are using smooth bottom presser feet you should see no teeth indentations on needle side of paper or very faint ones from feed dogs. If the paper does not feed or you can pull back on the paper your presser bar height need to be set following the manual. The timing also requires that you set the stitch length to zero. I time with the largest needle to be used which is a number 26. I seldom use a needle smaller than 21 anyway or 69 thread. Also when feeding the paper make mental note as to how high above the paper the presser and alternating presser rise. this Roze is also adjustable. 3) Put number 92 thread in your machine and set stitch length to 5spi or 6spi. Turn screw on bobbin case nearest the thread outlet all the way in, set top tension nearly all way out maybe a few turns in and with top tension knob only. Start sewing the sheet of paper. The thread is thicker than one sheet of paper but you should get good stitches. Do you?

[miaoreo]

" the first thing I would like you to do is 1) turn off machine insert on sheet of paper under pressers 2) with needle out of the machine and no thread turn flywheel while slightly tugging on the paper. It should be pull through the machine and if you tug too hard on paper to resist feed, the machine should tear it. If you are using smooth bottom presser feet you should see no teeth indentations on needle side of paper or very faint ones from feed dogs. If the paper does not feed or you can pull back on the paper your presser bar height need to be set following the manual."

Did this.... feed dogs pull paper thru, and if I tug on paper too hard it will tear. Feet and dogs have teeth. there is impression from dogs on bottom of paper. Best I can tell Rise of 'pressor feet' is about 4 or 5 mm.

Looking for a magnet right now, not messing with those tiny screws until I find one! LOL

[miaoreo]

Well I am just ready to throw this thing out the window.. If I could lift it.... Nothing works. Obviously someone changed the needle bar to use these longer needles. There are no scribe marks on it that I can see. The Thread still frays and breaks. The thread "Frays' in such a way that in one or two stitches it breaks. I took a couple of photos, with two different threads same results. This is just turning the flywheel by hand and this happens.

[J Hayes]

Have you checked the hook timing and distance the tip of the hook is from the scarf? My Singer acted in much the same way and it was the timing and clearance that were just a bit off causing the piont of the hook to pierce the top thread and it looked just like your pictures. Just a thought, I am no expert though. Parts.singerco.com hasfree manuals for your machine if you don't already have one. It goes over timing the hook.

Edited May 11, 2013 by J Hayes

[g3engr]

Here is a link to a better manual of the same machine except it is white in color.http://parts.singerco.com/IPsvcManuals/211W155.pdf The needle bar on some machines have no scribe lines but this is not a major problem.Page 8 of the above manual tells how to set the needle bar height without the marks being preseent. What I do is put the needle in the lowest position. Scribe a line with a carbide scribe (as the needle bar is hardened) right at the maciine frame. You can paint nail polish or something that will let you see the line. Without moving the needle bar mark another line 3/32" (2.4mm) below lhis line. I stack a bunch of feeler gages set to that thickness and scribe another line. Somthimes you can't see the lines on machines that have them engraved on the shaft, but you can feel them by running a finger nail up and down the shaft near the top. From looking at your pictures you don't have a tension problem because your stiches look fine except for the bird nesting which occurs randomly. Since most stitches are fine and only a few mess up, your machine is setting on the edge of an out of spec adjustment. Most likely the distance setting from hook point and needle. This is verified by the fact that the hook appears to catch your thread not in the loop but in the thread strand itself thus shredding it. I mentioned the the hook and bobin case for play. There should be very little if any. What is it on our machine? I stiil want you to remove the bobbin case before timing to check it for any defects that could cause binding of the case to hook and look for thread wrapped around the shaft which there should be for all the crashes your machine has made. You will remove the three little screws and throat plate and feet. You can rotate forward and backward of the flywheel to get the screws in a suitable position. Don't be intimidated by this process as you have the book. Print it out and when we get your machiine running we will test your machine by sewing a binding on your manual so it does not fall apart. Book binding is something that can be very handly for keeping three ring punched hole paper bound together so the sheet don't pull apart. Also you could sew a leather cover on your manual. Remember this. Fixing the machine should be easy. It's learning to use it that the journey and that's the journey I'm on.

[miaoreo]

First let me say THANK You to everyone here... I am not an idiot, this machine is just frustrating me.

Grant I did remove the bobbin case, all looks good there. No thread or rough sports and it is good and tight. (thank you for giving me the courage to attack those tiny screws)

I did find a rough spot actually above the needle on the lower edge of the thread lubricator, where the thread had cut a groove in the metal, amazing. I polished that down smooth.

I will look again, and feel, for any lines on the the needle bar, and if none go hunt up a carbide scribe.

And yes, it is a journey, Consider it a day wasted you don't learn something.

I agree the tension problem is mostly resolved and this has to be a timing/hook thing...

[Trox]

Its not a easy job to adjust a machine if it is your first time, thats why there are sewing machine mechanics. However, you are lucky its a Singer machine who is well covered with service manuals. On older German machines its often hard to find such manuals. Its important that you do all the adjustments, and in the right order to get it right. Make sure you use a new right size needle (as listed in the manual), and fresh left twisted thread. Make sure you thread your machine right, use all holes in the top thread guide (s) to get twink out of the thread.

Good luck