Revised Question: Adler 367 Versus Consew 206Rb-3

[georgeandgracie]

Now that I've spoken with the seller, I've found out that it's not an Adler 67 that he is selling, it is an Adler 367. It's four years old and has fewer than 20 hours on it. It is "self-oiling".

The seller wants $1500 for it. He paid $3500 for it new. Or fairly new - it had been a demo model when he got it.

So: would I be better off with the Consew 206RB-3 at $695 or this Adler? Which one would be best running at low speeds, on heavy canvas or medium leather?

Janet in Colorado

[J Hayes]

I think the self oilers need to be run fast for the self oiling to work properly.

I also think the Consew uses the same feet as the Singer 111's and many other machines. The feet for that Consew may be much less expensive than feet for the Adler, do a search on the feet and other accessories you may want, that may influence your decision.

Edited May 9, 2013 by J Hayes

[Wizcrafts]

Definitely, the Consew 206RB is better for upholstery and leather work. The Adler would be a nice high speed garment maker's machine.

[georgeandgracie]

Okay, I think you guys have given me the information I need. My husband is going to visit the Consew tomorrow, and if he has no qualms about it he'll probably buy it.

[Wizcrafts]

It will probably have an old clutch motor installed. If that motor turns too fast, buy a smaller pulley and belt. Most upholstery shops consider time as money and run their sewing machines at 2000 or 2200 RPM. That is about 4 times too fast for leather sewing.

[georgeandgracie]

Without a doubt you are right. Plans are afoot already for the modification.

[Trox]

Now that I've spoken with the seller, I've found out that it's not an Adler 67 that he is selling, it is an Adler 367. It's four years old and has fewer than 20 hours on it. It is "self-oiling".

The seller wants $1500 for it. He paid $3500 for it new. Or fairly new - it had been a demo model when he got it.

So: would I be better off with the Consew 206RB-3 at $695 or this Adler? Which one would be best running at low speeds, on heavy canvas or medium leather?

Janet in Colorado

Hi Janet,

Thats a different story the 367 is a very good and valuable machine in the upholstery class. Used ones are worth the same as three new Consews 206.

All Adler and later Dürkopp Adler machines that ends with "67" is flatbeds of the upholstery class. This one is the first of the modern M class machines. It will do the same as the other 67`s (and other upholstery triple feeds) at low speed, in addition to do it in high speed too.

Dürkopp Adler (DA) do not make low and high speed upholstery machines any more. They are all capable in doing both and has central oil lubrication systems. Both Adler and Dürkopp (before they became the same company) made such machines already in the 1980`ties. Examples are the triple feed Adler 767 and Dürkopp 291.

I would love to trade my "new" Dürkopp Adler 267-367 with Efka pos motor for it any-day. This machine has a bigger bobbin takes heavier thread and has a longer arm. This is the latest in German sewing machine technology and is what the Consew is going to look like in about ten years time. Have a look at its specs: http://www.duerkopp-adler.com/export/sites/duerkoppadler/commons/download/public/367/367_d_gb_f.pdf

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1liHhCliUDU

No offense, I get a bit carried away here. Nevertheless, is should not be a difficult choice. The only concern I have is the low price, these machine are normally for sale for much more than that. That is if you can find a used one for sale at all. There are no reason to sell it unless you get bankrupt and have too. Used German upholstery class sewing machines are usually much cheaper in Europe than in the US. The few 367 I have seen for sale here was all around 3500$.

However, the price it also depended of the version of it. They are normally equipped with a Efka 1550 internal position motor (900$ new) and all extras (air or el. back-tacking, foot-lift, thread trimmer etc.) This is a very high quality machine. Nevertheless, it might have been used in a factory and are in need of a refurbishing.

I would definitely have looked in to this DA (Dürkopp Adler) 367, the only better machine around is the new DA 867 (based on the same head as this).

If you cannot see any motor on it do not worry, the servo motor is placed inside the head. Here they sell them with the Efka 1550 mounted in a direct drive on the main shaft. I use the same motor on my 441 clone, it has 8 Nm of torque and I only use the half of it.

It would be a shame to put a clutch motor on it, you would not use a Volga (Russian antique) motor in a Cadillac either. However, most of the high end system servo motors only comes in a 220V., therefore anything is possible.

If this machine is OK you have a easy choice, this is a Mercedes-Royse of the upholstery class.

Keep us posted.

Good luck

Tor

[georgeandgracie]

The Adler 367 is still available because I bought the Consew.

[Trox]

The shipping would kill me and I already have 11 machines, it should be enough. This is a good opportunity for somebody to get a very good machine. If you had the right class from the beginning you might have chosen otherwise. However, the Consew will do the job too and you will have $ over for other stuff you need.

Good luck

Tor

[georgeandgracie]

The "$ left over" part is important. I do have other things to buy - materials, thread, grommet setters, and such.

[georgeandgracie]

So tell me, guys, would you have bought the Adler 367 for leather sewing?

When I was asking the night before I had to make the decision, I got the impression that the Adler would be too fast. The seller himself is parting with it for that reason: it worked when he was doing sheepskin aprons for saddles, but not now that he has switched his focus to wallets and purses. My own intentions lean more toward the wallets-and-purses scenario.

[CowboyBob]

The motor controls the speed,we always put a servo on them & you can go as slow as you want.

Edited May 10, 2013 by CowboyBob

[RoyalLeatherDesigns]

I would have bought the Adler no questions asked. That Consew is made in china and and Adler is a well German made machine. I think the Adler would have gone slow enough for what you have wanted it to do if it was still equipped with the Efka motor but then again you would need a 220 outlet

[ELeBlanc]

What about the "self oiling" aspect for a used 367? I'm looking at a used one that has been used in a factory for years. Is this a concern?

[Wizcrafts]

What about the "self oiling" aspect for a used 367? I'm looking at a used one that has been used in a factory for years. Is this a concern?

Everything depends on whether or not the oil pump can get the oil to the extremities of the wicks. If for some reason the wicks get dried up, the bearings and cranks at the end of the wicks may run dry. Also, even if the oil system is still fully functional, the moving parts will certainly have a lot of slack after running in a factory setting. I would ask to see the machine in operation before buying it.

According to the spec sheet, to fully distribute the oil, the machine must be routinely run at 2800 stitches per minute. Some home sewers with self-oilers will do this before sewing and while winding bobbins. Once the oil flows through the wicks, you can slow down to about 10 to 15 stitches per second (600 - 800 rpm) and the oil will persist until you let the machine sit idle for the night.

[TinkerTailor]

Everything depends on whether or not the oil pump can get the oil to the extremities of the wicks. If for some reason the wicks get dried up, the bearings and cranks at the end of the wicks may run dry. Also, even if the oil system is still fully functional, the moving parts will certainly have a lot of slack after running in a factory setting. I would ask to see the machine in operation before buying it.

According to the spec sheet, to fully distribute the oil, the machine must be routinely run at 2800 stitches per minute. Some home sewers with self-oilers will do this before sewing and while winding bobbins. Once the oil flows through the wicks, you can slow down to about 10 to 15 stitches per second (600 - 800 rpm) and the oil will persist until you let the machine sit idle for the night.

How are these oil pumps commonly driven? like could they be overdriven to bump the psi at low stitch rates with a pulley change or something?

[Wizcrafts]

How are these oil pumps commonly driven? like could they be overdriven to bump the psi at low stitch rates with a pulley change or something?

They are driven by gears inside the machine. no pulley change can override the oil pump gears. They pump most efficiently within their specified speed ranges. The machine in this topic says 2800 spm in the specs. It was made to sew rather fast. The target buyers are auto upholstery and heavy garment makers. They are often sewed flat out, pedal to the metal, on clutch motor driven machines, geared high.

Torque doesn't even enter into it when all you have to penetrate is garment or upholstery leather or denim.