Saddle Stitch Origins?

[El Zipster]

Oh, WOW! I had forgotten about this thread! AWESOME!

^this is correct. At least it is in my made up story

^Nope, was refering to Dangerous Beans.

Take care, guys

Doh!!

[Basically Bob]

Thank you, for your thoughts and input!

Much appreciated.

[Mixael]

On a more serious note... I think WyomingSlick has it right, this stitch is as old as saddles.

Much like the bow and arrow, no one culture can clam its invention, and no one person can be attributed to its development.

Skills were very guarded so the secrecy around noteworthy saddlers skills hampered the recording of methods.

I have had many conversations with re-enacters who say that leatherwork was quite crude and the saddle stitch would not have been around in the Middle Ages.

I disagree, having seen some of the work dug up over the years in metal, I think artisans in the Middle Ages had a phenomenal range of skills, we just don't have proof because leather does not last that long. There is no reason do doubt the saddle stitch had been around for a very long time.

I think the development of tools such as the awl and pricking irons which in the scheme of things are fairly recent, and of course the needle have contributed to a more consistent and neater stitch, but only as a progression of an existing method.

But... And more importantly! I'm in a story!

Nige

Very much agree with Nigel on this. (Bummer, I'm being serious now. That's gonna ruin my reputation!) To any that would say that back in the middle ages leatherwork was crude, I'd say "Prove it". Sure, there was probably alot of crude stuff out there. The poor farmer trying to just get enough to feed his family probably wasn't a trained leathersmith, but I'd be willing to bet he did what he could to make leather stuff he needed, rather than try to buy it. But the royalty and wealthy? THEY wanted the good stuff. My bet is that the great leathersmiths, you know, the guys that guarded their secrets well, produced AMAZING leather items. And not just saddles, either. So, my story COULD have a bearing of truth in it.

Oh, and Nige is in a STORY! We can't forget that But, uh, yeah...that's all.

Michael

[WyomingSlick]

I suppose it is going to depend on what you call a saddle stitch. You know saddle stitching is nothing but a running stitch that has been doubled. If fact, some do a saddle stitch by doing a running stitch one way and then simply coming back the other way to finish. Seems to me that such a simple concept would have been used way back by our ancestors to double the strength of a running stitch.

[Toolingaround]

Hi Dangerous Beans

Umm.... Beg to differ.....no offense but awls are ancient, check this out!

http://www.primitiveways.com/Iceman.html

Cheers, Toolingaround

[Dangerous Beans]

Hi Dangerous Beans

Umm.... Beg to differ.....no offense but awls are ancient, check this out!

http://www.primitiveways.com/Iceman.html

Cheers, Toolingaround

Not sure what you're differing with?

I know awls are ancient, but not as you see them today, there are some very fine examples found in bone.

I was referring to the development, not the invention.

Nige

[Toolingaround]

Hi Dangerous Beans

Guess I read it wrong, sorry

Cheers, Toolingaround

[WinterBear]

I have had many conversations with re-enacters who say that leatherwork was quite crude and the saddle stitch would not have been around in the Middle Ages.

You're definitely right Nigel. You can tell them they aren't looking in the right museums then!

Here are some museum examples that appear to be saddle-stitched, or maybe just double-running stitch. I think these all are early to late Medieval.

http://www.bunrattycollection.com/search.php?i=138

http://www.bunrattycollection.com/search.php?i=140

http://www.bunrattycollection.com/search.php?i=146

As for crude? Well, yeah. When you consider that the average person wouldn't have a lot of access to tools and didn't have the leisure to learn to make things at the epitome of the art unless they were masters or journeymen of that craft--and those items would have been made for and owned by the wealthy. In a situation like that, good enough was often as good as it got for day-to-day items for the average schmoe.

You should remind them that what remains for history often is recovered from garbage pits or battlefields, where animals, microbes, and the weather would have caused havoc on anything organic. Nothing organic looks pretty or well made after being chewed on or worn out to the point of being deemed non-salvageable and then thrown somewhere nasty to fester for hundreds of years.

edit: This too: http://www.historiclife.com/pdf/flasks.pdf

Edited March 18, 2014 by WinterBear

[celticleather]

The sites below refer to 'two-needle' stitching used by the Roman Legion for stitching together the panels of goatskin tents. Remains of these tents have been found at the Roman military site of Vindolanda, close to Hadrian's Wall in northern England, and the stitching methods have been closely studied. This would seem to push the use of the saddle stitch back to at least 2000 years ago!

http://legioneromana.altervista.org/it/node/31?language=en

http://www.kingsmerecrafts.com/page44.html

http://www.larp.com/legioxx/leather.html

[Basically Bob]

Thanks for sharing, guys ... the links you have provided are very interesting!

Edited March 18, 2014 by Basically Bob