Newbie Qns: What Kind Of Leather Is This?

[GarrusV]

Hi everyone,

I came across Saddlebackleather's thin briefcase.

MY GOODNESS it is beautiful! Especially the tobacco colour.

http://media.saddlebackleather.com/image/upload/w_1280,h_1280,c_fill/01-10-0002-MD-TO-NP-C-01-1900.jpg

http://www.saddlebackleather.com/briefcasethin?sc=8&category=301406

I read on the site that they only use full grain leather, but when I asked some of my friends they told me there's no way full grain leather can be made to look like that.

They also told me there's no way full grain can be made to look or stay as rigid as Saddleback briefcase.

Anyone here knows what kind of leather is used for the tobacco? Appreciate if anyone here can advise.

Thanks!

[Cyberthrasher]

Well, "Full Grain" has nothing to do with the rigidity of the leather or the colors or anything. Full grain comes from manufacturing terms. To be EXTREMELY general, there are two types of leather that manufactures will use, full grain and split. The full grain leather is the top grain of the leather, regardless of type/species/color/tanning. It's the outside skin of the animal that would have the hair on it - the grain side. Split leather on the other hand, is the flesh portion of the skin that's been "split" OFF of the grain. A lot of tanneries and leather providers will split the leather for their customers to provide a thinner material for them to work with. A lot of the cheap knock-off and junk manufacturers buy this split waste and sell it as "genuine leather" in their products - because they're not really lying at that point.

Now that you know what full grain is - That looks like a drum dyed leather that's been cut and assembled. There are lots of guides online regarding the different types of leather. I just had a look through saddleback's pages and found that they have one as well. It's full of a lot of hype and justification, which is a shame because they seem to make a nice looking bag that should stand on its own. But, in there he does imply that he's using drum dyed leather. One thing to point out about his guide, he mentions that if the color doesn't go all the way through the leather that it's cheap leather and lesser quality - this is NOT true. It's simply a result of the tannery drum dying the leather vs. the crafter hand dying it in their shop.

[GarrusV]

Thanks Cyberthrasher,

I read up about "genuine" leather...split and some of the basic stuff.

I have searched this forum regarding saddleback's stuff, and kind of understand the doubts regarding Dave's statements. My own sources are also telling me the same things as well.

1) Drum dyed leather...this is also a generic term as well right? Or it is a kind of finish? Do you have any guides you can point me to?

I was told the leather used in that tobacco briefcase is called "crazy horse" leather. I have searched "crazy horse leather" on Google, Youtube...hardly any detailed info came up, except that oil and wax is used during the tanning process.

2) And that means that there's no way it's vegetable tanned, am I right?

3) My sources are telling me that is not possible to achieve the look of that tobacco briefcase using full grain leather, is that true?

4) If I want to achieve that kind of rigidity, I have to use at least 8oz leather?

Please advise, thanks!

[J Hayes]

drum dyed= dyed at tannery

The Crazy Horse is available from Zack White Leather, I've used 3-4 sides in 5/6 oz, nice stuff I like it a lot. Not veg tan, chome oil tanned I think.

I don't see what they are telling you that full grain leather cannot look like that.

Rigidity could come from "stiffeners" sandwich between layers, also the side seams, there are 3 layers sewn on thr middle gusset, that will help keep it pretty stiff.

I made a very basic messenger type bag that is fairly rigid, post titled "bag for my boy" its Crazy Horse Chocolate in 5/6 oz.

Look also at Walden bags........ oh my!

Jeremy

[Geneva]

I posted a reply to this very question.

The bag is made from chrome tanned leather that has had a good deal of oil added to it. It is often refereed to as oil tanned leather crazy horse has nothing to do with it. Crazy horse is not a process for tanning leather it is only a name given to it to boost sales of this type of leather.

There are no pieces glued or sewn inside the leather to make it stiff.

ALL leather is full grained that referees to the top grain of the leather.

My sources are telling me that is not possible to achieve the look of that tobacco briefcase using full grain leather, is that true?

You should not ask any more questions of your sources they don't know what they are talking about.

[GarrusV]

I posted a reply to this very question.

The bag is made from chrome tanned leather that has had a good deal of oil added to it. It is often refereed to as oil tanned leather crazy horse has nothing to do with it. Crazy horse is not a process for tanning leather it is only a name given to it to boost sales of this type of leather.

There are no pieces glued or sewn inside the leather to make it stiff.

ALL leather is full grained that referees to the top grain of the leather.

My sources are telling me that is not possible to achieve the look of that tobacco briefcase using full grain leather, is that true?

You should not ask any more questions of your sources they don't know what they are talking about.

Hi Geneva,

Thanks for your input. I meant no disrespect, just trying to get more understanding. You're probably right, my sources are mostly salesmen, not craftsmen!

I came across this Burberry bag with this interior lining. Feels VERY good, similar feeling when I brush against fur. Is this a kind of suede?

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/85896290/20131124_165249.jpg

[electrathon]

Hard to tell by looking at a picture, but it looks like split to me.

[WyomingSlick]

Hard to tell by looking at a picture, but it looks like split to me.

I believe if you zoom on the photo, you will change your mind when you cann see the scuffs and scratches that would show much on the sueded texture of split leather.

[dirtclod]

It looks to me like it's a Nubuck leather. Call around and see if the folks selling it will send you a little piece. Oh the other thing you need to make you bag like they do is buy the cheapest crapest full of brands and scratches leather you can find. That's what they use and brag about it on you tube. Just more hype for them to make more money.

[GarrusV]

It looks to me like it's a Nubuck leather. Call around and see if the folks selling it will send you a little piece.

Thanks for the tip! Looking up at tandy's and ebay for some of the pricing.

Oh the other thing you need to make you bag like they do is buy the cheapest crapest full of brands and scratches leather you can find. That's what they use and brag about it on you tube. Just more hype for them to make more money.

Even with this Saddleback?

http://www.saddlebackleather.com/briefcasethin?sc=8&category=301406

I watched some user reviews on Youtube, some posted after 6 months of use, and read some blog reviews. I have the impression they are really solid bags, in particular the thin briefcase.

If I'm going to make this myself, the costs looks high...

- Considering that it's made out of 3 pieces of leather (front, gusset, back), so I have to probably purchase one whole hide for this project?

- Crazy horse leather. I looked up at ebay, and found the following which looks like it, at 6oz at achieve that rigidity / thickness. It's already $100.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Old-World-LATIGO-COWHIDE-LEATHER-24-27-Sq-Ft-6-oz-1-Quality-British-Tan-AE1-/290943363410?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item43bd936952

- I'm not doing the stiffeners, handles or the extra D-rings to turn it into a bag.

- If I were to find an expert to stitch this up, I think I'll have to pay him at least another $100?

So in total I'm estimating I'll have to spend $200 to make this bag myself. Do you guys think this amount is a good estimate?

[dirtclod]

This is what i was talking about when i said they used the cheapest leather they can buy.

For some reason i can't get it to load here or youtube but he is talking about the beauty of scars. In other words the cheapest side they can buy ! He talks so much HYPE about the scars, scratches and cuts he makes people think their LUCKY to get a piece with a big scar. Notice to that the comments are turned off. Guess he didn't want folks saying that the leather was crap. Edited December 1, 2013 by dirtclod

[GarrusV]

Oh I see...yeah I saw that video. Surprised that the comments are turned off, but as you said it's because of too many bad comments!

But about my own costs estimates...is it accurate?

I hope to roughly get a grip on a budget before I start out!

[KandB]

Point of note - scarred leather is not the cheapest money can buy. A hide of scarred Horween will cost you more than a split of spray-painted crap.

Several people collect brand marks and like buying something that is completely unique (having identifying markings). That does not mean that it's cheap leather - in fact, the oil tan that saddleback uses is what you can get at tandy for about $10/sq ft (when not on sale). As long as the scars and marks are surface-only and don't actually affect the integrity of the leather, the use of markings doesn't lower the price of the product.

Not to mention that a bag with cheap leather that is well constructed will last you a lifetime while one with good leather that is poorly made will die in less than a year.

Just my two cents.

Edited January 21, 2014 by KandB