Uni-Saddle

[kseidel]

I haven't posted in some time and thought it was time to post pics of my latest invention in the saddle world. The entire top of this saddle is molded and shaped from a single piece of leather without splits or seams. Swell, seat, rigging, and skirts are all incorporated into a single piece. This is one of the most dificult saddles I have ever made.

[AndyH]

Very impressive- beautiful work!

[dirtclod]

Really and i mean really nice work !!! I bet that took a lot of planing and hopeing that everthing fit when you started cutting.

[JasonGwiazda]

Really, really nice work,very impressive!

[Josh Ashman]

Absolutely stunning! Thank you for sharing!

[AdamTill]

Inspiring work!

[oltoot]

WOW! Did you get it right the first time or are there a few 'trials' in the scrap box. Myself, I'm not sure that I would even expect to get it right the first time. 1st, 2nd, 14th it is still impressive.

[GrampaJoel]

Ok Keith, I can see the cut and molding of most of it, but how did you cut the seat, and still have the skirts wrap all the way back behind the cantle???

Must have been some heavy stretching going on.

Btw,

Beautiful job, as always, I find it simply amazing the way you keep raising the bar.

Joel

[kseidel]

WOW! Did you get it right the first time or are there a few 'trials' in the scrap box. Myself, I'm not sure that I would even expect to get it right the first time. 1st, 2nd, 14th it is still impressive.

Ha Ha! Most people don't recognize the "discard" factor! Surprisingly enough, I did get it correct the first time. This is the second saddle that I have made like this. The first was nerve wracking to say the least. While tooling, the leather stretched more than expected, and I did not think it was going to go back on right. Not only the cost of a side of leather, but all that time tooling. Fortunately, it did dry down tight. This time it was not quite so intimidating. I learned some things to look out for on the first one, and that helped with this one.

Ok Keith, I can see the cut and molding of most of it, but how did you cut the seat, and still have the skirts wrap all the way back behind the cantle???

Must have been some heavy stretching going on.

Btw,

Beautiful job, as always, I find it simply amazing the way you keep raising the bar.

Joel

Well, it is a trick to fitting it up. First I blocked the skirts into place, and then began fitting the top piece. I began at the cantle, cutting out a hole that fit around the cantle back, and then cut some relief in the center of the seat. I then was able to pull a lot of slack into the center of the seat. There is still a significant amount of stretching and swea... sweating, yea thats it sweating. The hardest part is tucking the cantle binding under the "seat" on each side. There is no slack once the inlaid seat is all stitched to the dish of the seat and installed into the tree, since it is also a part of the skirts and jockeys. I sure don't recommend it for a novice maker!

Thanks for all the compliments. I appreciate your looking at my saddle.

Keith

Edited November 20, 2013 by kseidel

[Billy H]

Really Really Nice!!!!!

You are for sure a Master Saddle Maker.

I do miss you masters posting your work, and your discussions on the building process of a saddle. I have used those post to improve on my saddle making endeavors. Thank you

If you have the time, back in April I posted a saddle that I made and would truly appreciate some critique on it. ( good or bad )

I am just starting a new wade for myself and would really like to get it right.

This afternoon I must have spent an hour just looking at your saddle. Thanks for posting!

[BOB BRENNER]

Keith,

As always a cut above.

I know what you mean -- sweating and I will add a lot of patience!! Not a project you start in the afternoon. I use a similar process on my trick saddles.

Bob

[bruce johnson]

Keith,

That saddle is really a treat to see. Impressive the way it all came together. Thanks for posting it here.

- Bruce

[BondoBobCustomSaddles]

Always a treat to get to look at your work. I can only say that work like yours and a couple of others on here are what keep me going. Some day I am going to get out to Wyoming and am sure going to make it a point to stop into you shop. Bob

[Billy H]

Hey Keith,

I just was surfing the web and found out that you won the" SADDLE MAKER OF THE YEAR " at the Academy of Western Artists.

That is quite compliment!

Your work is extraordany------ Ragards Billy

[kseidel]

Really Really Nice!!!!!

You are for sure a Master Saddle Maker.

I do miss you masters posting your work, and your discussions on the building process of a saddle. I have used those post to improve on my saddle making endeavors. Thank you

If you have the time, back in April I posted a saddle that I made and would truly appreciate some critique on it. ( good or bad )

I am just starting a new wade for myself and would really like to get it right.

This afternoon I must have spent an hour just looking at your saddle. Thanks for posting!

Billy, Sorry for the delay in reply. I have been busy getting ready for cowboy christmans in vegas next week. The only saddle pic that I can find that you posted is of your first saddle that you made for your dad. Do you have a more recent saddle that you would like advise on?

Yes, I was awarded the Saddlemaker of the year for 2012 by the academy of western artists. I have been nominated for many years and always get beat by someone much older! It was a great honor for me to receive this award. Thanks for the compliment.

Keith

Edited November 25, 2013 by kseidel

[Billy H]

Hi Keith,

Sorry --- should have been more specific, it is titled Mule Saddle , about 15 posts down on the page.

[begrate]

Keith,

I like this saddle, and have a couple questions about it.

Do you have screws run through under the concho's to hold the rigging in place?

Would a saddle designed this way stand up to a lot of roping?

Thanks, Reid G.

[kseidel]

Hi Keith,

Sorry --- should have been more specific, it is titled Mule Saddle , about 15 posts down on the page.

BillyH, I found your saddle and pasted a copy of the pic here to reference. This is a good looking saddle and more difficult to critique. Overall general appearance is very good. So my evaluations will have to be more specific and may seem trivial to some. It is the little things that make the difference at this level of craftsmanship.

Overall proportions are pretty balanced, however, with this style of swell, I would like to see a little longer skirt out behind the cantle... a little more length to depth proportion to compliment the swell thickness. I like the relationship of front depth and back depth... looks like it should sit fairly level on the mule.

The one thing that jumps out to me is the depth and shape of the seat side jockey. I would like it to be much shorter, maybe 1.5" or more shorter. I do not like to see a seat drop below the skirt, and usually prefer it above the skirt line. This would change the shape some, and I would then make it a little more oval shaped. Extending the front curve under the concho and back cutting to the concho. You have the beginning of this at the back. Just emphasize this more. You can see this shape by studying pics of old Visallia and Frazier saddles. This one thing will change the look of this saddle a lot.

Your front jockey top line should line up with the seat top line coming into the concho. The conchos should not extend past the seat, unless they completely cover the ears. Plan ahead for the size of your conchos. This goes for front and rear.

Rear jockey space from skirt in the rear is good, but jockey line makes an abrupt curve just behind rear rigging. It should follow a smooth curve all the way under the seat, gradually widening the space between skirt and jockey.

Edge lines of skirts and jockeys and fenders are not perfectly smooth. Use of a block plane will help smoothing out those cuts.

Fender shape does not compliment skirt shape. A fuller and deeper back corner cutting up to the fender tail would be more complimentary.

Here is a little more advanced suggestion... lighting indicates that the seat is a bit narrow relative to the width of the rigging. I always put my riggings in before ground seats so that I can shape the seat to achieve equal presure from thigh to knee. If the seat is narrower than the rigging, then the thighs cannot grip the saddle, and the knees will rub, causing abrasions and open sores. A narrow seat is desireable, but it cannot be narrower than the horse. In this case, the rigging becomes the widest point, and must be considered when shaping the seat. The balance of your seat looks good, with a comfortable top line, and dish.

Your cheyenne roll cantle binding looks good, but a bit flat. More downward slope would better compliment the angles of this saddle. Width is fine. Corner could be more rounded into seat.

This turned out to be a long evaluation! It is just my opinion and how I see things. I like your saddle and only offer my opinions to give you ( and others) variations to consider.

Respectfully,

Keith Seidel

[kseidel]

Keith,

I like this saddle, and have a couple questions about it.

Do you have screws run through under the concho's to hold the rigging in place?

Would a saddle designed this way stand up to a lot of roping?

Thanks, Reid G.

Reid,

There are screws under the conchos, but they do not hold the rigging in place. The fitting of the parts and the shaping of the leather over the fork ensure that the rigging will not move. The rigging is part of the swell cover, seat, and skirts. This is all stitched to a skirt fitted under the tree. This skirt is nailed and screwed under the gullet, both front and under cantle. There is no way for this saddle to come apart! It would hold up to the most extreme demands.

Keith

[Billy H]

Hi Keith,

First let me say thank you for taking the time to look at my Mule saddle!

Boy you do not miss a thing. Actually I think you where pretty kind in your evaluation.

I totally agree with you on all your suggestions. So much to learn when trying to make a good saddle.

If you don't mind---- I have a couple of questions.

- What is a Block Shave?

One thing for sure is I need to be more particular on my edges.

- How much length do you figure on the back of the Skirt?

- Should I have dropped the back rigging to give more curve to the Back Jockey or just gone over the Back Billet?

- Fender shape to me is always challenging. The fellow I built this saddle for had a 27 inch inseam and he was 5' 7 inches tall.

Absolutely no thigh bone---- every shape I tried looked like a little kids saddle. How do you determine shape for a particular saddle?

Again thank you for your time, and I appreciate you pasting my saddle on your thread, people get to see a Masters saddle a novice saddle maker and see where to start from and where you might end up at.

I was a little slow to respond back to you, I have been helping my better half at the Stock Show with her events.

Regards. Billy

[Jdavies]

Absolutely stunning saddle keith. Thanks for sharing.

[kseidel]

Hi Keith,

First let me say thank you for taking the time to look at my Mule saddle!

Boy you do not miss a thing. Actually I think you where pretty kind in your evaluation.

I totally agree with you on all your suggestions. So much to learn when trying to make a good saddle.

If you don't mind---- I have a couple of questions.

- What is a Block Shave?

One thing for sure is I need to be more particular on my edges.

- How much length do you figure on the back of the Skirt?

- Should I have dropped the back rigging to give more curve to the Back Jockey or just gone over the Back Billet?

- Fender shape to me is always challenging. The fellow I built this saddle for had a 27 inch inseam and he was 5' 7 inches tall.

Absolutely no thigh bone---- every shape I tried looked like a little kids saddle. How do you determine shape for a particular saddle?

Again thank you for your time, and I appreciate you pasting my saddle on your thread, people get to see a Masters saddle a novice saddle maker and see where to start from and where you might end up at.

I was a little slow to respond back to you, I have been helping my better half at the Stock Show with her events.

Regards. Billy

Hope all is profitable at the stock show Billy. I've been at several shows myself recently and so slow to reply also. Leaving again Sunday for Elko. Haven't been there in 20 years.

A block plane is a woodworking tool I have re-appropriated for leather work. I like the small ones that fit in the palm of your hand. I turn the blade over so its angle is parallel with the face, and sharpen it to a fine smooth edge. It works well for evening out long curves and trueing edges smooth and square before edging. I use it for skirts, horns, cantles, and fenders, and many other items. You can get one at most hardware stores. Link to block plane. The one in the link is my personal favorite. It would be difficult to do really clean leatherwork without one of these.

I like to be 5.5-6.5 inches benind the cantle with my skirt length in general, however, I am much more interested in the overall look and balance of the saddle than with the specifeic dimmension. I see too many craftsmen who are married to dimensions like they are universal rules, when they are just references. Your depth to length balance is nice on this saddle.

Your rear rigging is in the correct place, and your jockey is deep enough. I just note that the curve is not smooth and it comes to an abrupt corner just behind the rigging, where it comes straight along the bottom. I submit that it does not need to come straight at that point, but should follow the curve farther... maybe untill it reaches the middle of the billet. It should not be deeper or cover the billlet, just re-draw the curve to be smooth and not have the abrupt corner.

Your customer for this saddle makes the fender more of a challenge. His leg length is another reason for making the seat side jockey shallower. In a case like this, I will calculate length that the fender needs to be, and sketch it on a larger piece of paper or cardboard and, while fitting the rest of the saddle, draw the fender shape to compliment the rest of the saddle's shape. I make a more rounded fender for round skirts, and a straighter more squared fender for square skirts. Fender shape can greatly affect the overall look of the saddle, so I adjust it while fitting the entire saddle. These perameters were challenging for sure!

Hope all of these thoughts are helpful to you. I would love to see more of your saddles in the future, as would we all, I'm sure.

Best wishes,

Keith

Edited January 23, 2014 by kseidel

[AdamTill]

Thanks for letting us be a fly on the wall gents, very much appreciated!

[Billy H]

Thank you Keith!

I am so glad that you responded before starting ( My New Saddle ).

First thing I am going to change is putting the Rigging in before the Ground seat. I think this will help me a lot!

Your reasoning is so true. Thanx

Now I understand what you meant about the Rear Jockey. The Side Jockey looked so right when I was cutting it out, but when I finished the saddle I new it was to long, just could not get the courage to try and trim at that point.

Thank you for the link, I will get a Block Shave very soon.

My wife has a little extra bounce in her step. She made enough to cover all her fees and even pay for desiel to and from and buy me lunch!

Have a safe trip to Elko and I sure appreciate your help. Billy

[kseidel]

Thanks for letting us be a fly on the wall gents, very much appreciated!

Adam, I'm sure Billy will get the most out of this conversation, however, I also know that lots of guys have questions that they don't ask. So I try to make these posts as thorough as possible so they will have as much impact as possible. I hope there is something positive for everyone reading. Thanks for your input. Keith