Flattracker Report post Posted February 16, 2014 Hi, I'm based in the UK and looking at getting a sewing machine that doesn't mark the veg tan leather. I've tried a Singer 133K8 but the underside of the leather ended up with teeth indents. Numerous adds I've seen for leather sewing machines state they are compound feed, does this mean it is a triple feed which I understand won't mark the leather. Many thanks Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cdthayer Report post Posted February 16, 2014 A compound feed machine will mark your leather if it has teeth on its feet. Here’s a broken work belt that I repaired with a Consew 225. Marking wasn’t a concern on this one. Just sewing an old belt back together to get a few more miles out of it. CD in Oklahoma Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andrew Chee Report post Posted February 16, 2014 Compound feed and triple feed basically mean the same thing. There are compound feed machines designed more for fabric and ones more for leather. The basic difference is that the ones for fabric will have teeth in the feed dogs and feet and the ones for leather will have smooth ones. Teeth help the feet grab fabric better where leaving marks is not a concern. A compound feed with smooth feed and feed dog is what you're looking for. Bear in kind though that these machines may still mark some because they are putting pressure on the leather (pressing against it) but the marking would be much much less and it may be possible to adjust the presser feet pressure to minimize marking. Andrew Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Flattracker Report post Posted February 16, 2014 Thanks for the replies. Hi Cdthayer, that's exactly the type of marks the Singer 133K8 made on my leather samples I took along. Amongst the samples was some Horween CXL, the tooth marks could be pushed out of it, but not an ideal situation. Hi Andrew, here comes a silly question! are the feed & feed dog easily changeable between toothed and smooth versions? This would make the machine more adaptable or am I barking up the wrong tree. Do you know if the Singer 133K8 I tried was a Compound triple feed or a Double feed type. Thanks all, Rich Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cdthayer Report post Posted February 16, 2014 (edited) The marks that you can see in my second photo are from the feeddog. That side was down. CD in Oklahoma Edited February 16, 2014 by cdthayer Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tejas Report post Posted February 16, 2014 The following link describes the 133K8 as a drop-feed, walking-foot machine -- lacks needle-feed. http://www.ismacs.ne...es-100-199.html Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Flattracker Report post Posted February 16, 2014 Whoah! I didn't realise Singer made so many different models. I think I need to do some more reading to fully understand about Drop feeds, dogs. pressers etc etc Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tejas Report post Posted February 16, 2014 (edited) A compound walking-foot machine (aka, compound-feed, unison-feed, triple-feed) has both drop-feed (bottom-feed) and needle-feed (top-feed) with an alternating presser-foot (walking-foot). Drop-feed is accomplished by a set serrated feed-dogs that grip the material between the feed-dog and the presser-foot. When the needle is lifted out of the fabric, the feed-dog raises out of slots in the base of the machine and moves the material. At the end of the movement, the feed-dogs drop and relinquish the grip. Needle-feed is accomplished by moving the material with the needle when the needle is in the material as the needle follows essentially an elliptical path. Needle-feed also mitigates the tendency of lower layers of material to feed faster than upper layers with drop-feed machines. The following links might be helpful. The YouTube video also shows the control possible with a servo motor and do click on "show more." http://en.wikipedia....Feed_mechanisms The following thread is excellent for understanding more about industrial sewing machines. http://leatherworker...showtopic=25239 Edited February 16, 2014 by Tejas Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andrew Chee Report post Posted February 16, 2014 Depending on the machine and what parts are available for them, smooth feed dogs and presser feet may be available. It just depends on what people sell. If not, you can always take an existing feed dog or foot and grind down the teeth to smooth or almost smooth. That's what a lot of the dealers around here would do if a smooth version of a part is not made. Depending on the machine, these parts can be very cheap (like for singer 111) class type machines so it won't cost you too much to do this. Andrew Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Flattracker Report post Posted February 16, 2014 Big thanks for the info folks, lots to digest tonight & tomorrow. That youtube of the needle feed is so cool, love the control and movement. I've been hand-stitching for the last 2 years so maybe the way I construct things by hand-stitching is different when using machines. Maybe it might be good if I post a photo of a small bag I made for my old BSA last year and you can advise if it could be done the same by machine. I'll dig it out tomorrow. Thanks Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Flattracker Report post Posted February 17, 2014 So following on and after doing the reading I know realise I've asked the wrong question in the header! Am I right in thinking that both a Compound/Triple Feed machine or a Jump Feed machine could both come with either smooth or toothed feed dogs so if I'm looking for a machine that is less likely to mark the leather then it should have a smooth/dull feed dog. Both the Compound & Jump feed machines are Needle feed which means its the needle that moves the work along but the Compound machine would hold the work more securely? And more expensive? I've attached a couple of snaps of the first bike bag I made last year, all hand-stitched. Looking at it now I'm wondering how the hell I'd do this on a machine. The veg tan leather is too thick to turn inside out so it would have to be machine stitched on the outside seams if that's the right terminology. Maybe I should put this into another topic on bag construction though I'm beginning to realise what a massive source of info this forum is so it's probably already on here somewhere. Look forward to any replies. Thanks, Rich Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Flattracker Report post Posted February 17, 2014 Ahh, found how to do it I think. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tejas Report post Posted February 17, 2014 I'm just beginning to sew leather and turning even soft leather from inside out has been a hassle. I've made several different prototype bags in heavy stiff-woven fabric that I've never tried in leather precisely because of that problem. Most of my prior experience has been boat canvas, including sticky materials such as vinyl. Feed-dog and presser-foot marks were not a problem sewing sticky materials. Getting the material to feed was the problem but which can be mitigated by sandwiching the material in news-print. After sewing, the newsprint easily tore-away on the stitch line. I've read about feed-dog and presser-foot marks on leather and thought that if newsprint didn't work, I'd try cold tape and if that didn't work, electricians' tape, all both on the top and bottom if necessary. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Flattracker Report post Posted February 17, 2014 I wonder what kind of machine would be used to stitch those old style school satchels, they're stitched on the outside. Hi Andrew, I've just seen your hunter bag on the forum, it looks really great and I keep hearing about the PFAFF 335 machine and the Consew machine, no marked leather! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andrew Chee Report post Posted February 18, 2014 All of those machines are compound/triple feed. They all have smooth feet and feed dogs either available or easily modified. The different feet can be purchased relatively inexpensively. The 335 is a very nice machine because it is a cylinder arm and has a synchronized binder. The Consew 206 machines are less expensive but are flat bed and don't have a synchronized binder. Neither are mark proof though. It's really an issue of the type of leather you use and the pressure setting on the machine. When I sew very firm veg tan leather, it will still leave tracks. When I say tracks I mean you can see that it was sewn by a machine but there are no teeth marks. You may be able to rub the tracks out afterwards but it will leave a little bit of a track. Andrew Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Flattracker Report post Posted February 18, 2014 Thanks, much appreciated Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
