Trees Explained<--that's what I want.

[bruce johnson]

It kind of looks like the things that are interfering with what you want to do have more to do with the maker than the tree. At least they are things the maker can help out a bunch. The width across the middle that makes you sit wide. - Wider midseats are a plus for a calf roper to stand out there and not be leaning into the center. That is about the only place a wide seat is much of a benefit to me. One of those function vs. comfort factor things. Otherwise I wouldn't ride mine to the road (50 ft). The groundseat makes a lot of difference in how wide a saddle sits. You can build one up higher with narrow build ups and the rider will swear they are sitting closer than a broad across the middle model. My first flat seat was a Billy Cook board. It about split me in half, and I was young and limber then. The seat on that one was right down on the bars, and I'd wager those bars were not real thick.

As far as getting your feet up into the flats. You can do that probably the easiest on a 14" wide association tree with a 5/8 EZ dee setup. The rigging style and frender and leather shapes probably limit more stirrup swing than swells. For a general using saddle that you want a little swell in front of you there are several options. I like something I can kind of lean up into. I use some Dee Picketts, Nikkels' High Country is a good tree, Olin Youngs, the land of Bowmans, etc. I am not a fan of low TMs personally as a user. That leg cut is just asking to bruise you when you hit it, and they put it on a lot of them.

It really sounds to me like a narrow seat with a plate rigging to allow some forward swing will be pretty close to what you are looking for.

[Hidemechanic]

I had a suspition your question about swell width wasn't going the direction you wanted to go. Don't worry, I've done the same thing.

I agree with Bruce that the seat is your problem. It doesn't matter whose name is on any saddle or the style

. The Wade isn't your problem, it's the way the seat was put in.

If you aren't into that saddle too much you could have a saddle maker rework the seat and you'll be surprised how much better your ride will be.

Good Luck. GH

[Echo4V]

Bruce

Thanks for explaining that about the seat. That may have been my issue with the saddles I tried and didn't like. As I've posted before I'm no calf roper ( or roper of anything really although I can rope if I have to) so I guess I would like a narrower seat especially towards the front of the saddle. I spent a lot of time on the front line of a foot ball team in high school and then 5 yrs running every morning in the Marine Corps so I have bigger thighs than most riders and I tend to have issues with interferance when I try to move my legs much at all in a saddle. I've had a roping saddle with a bowman style pommel and I liked it but I prefer a slick fork like a weatherly or a wade. I definately agree with you on the plate rigging, my last saddle had a drop plate with a "C" shaped rigging ring and I liked it better than any rigging style I've ridden before. Whether tied or buckled it was the most comfortable rigging.

Hidemechanic

Well actually, what happened was...

I had a saddle that I really liked but another guy liked it too so he offered me his horse trailer ( which I was in need of and liked a little more than the saddle) for my saddle. So, now I have a trailer but no saddle. So I thought if I'm gonna get another I want it to be exactly what I want and not "just about what I'm looking for" that's why I got on here and started trying to figure out what I could do with a saddle. I started this thread about narrow swells( or I guess the seat) and I started a thread about skirts to see what people think about eliminating the skirts to cut down on saddle weight. So, I don't have the saddle to have it reworked. I'm actually hoping that this will be my chance to build my own so I'm kinda easing into that idea and trying to get everything worked out in my head before I spend money on materials.

[Hidemechanic]

Sorry, I misunderstood the trade, I thought it went the other way. But that's okay. You're right that now you can pick up a few more things to look for in your next saddle.

I've been off here all summer and I don't know if seats have been covered but I'll see if I can give a quick run down('quick' HAA Haa!!!), and I'm sure others will fill in the gaps as you'll have more questions.

You were talking about slick forks to give you more leg room, but you can have Bowman or association or whatever with a bit longer seat length with the ground seat built up and carved out so you still have room on the front. Genearlly whatever swell you have, one of the issues you are also going to run into with a wide seat is sore knees and ankles. The wide seat pushes you thighs away from the horse causing your leg tendons and ligaments to overwork themselves by the time they get to the stirrups.

Generally speaking we are trying to keep everything as streight as posible posture wise. So narrowing down the seat so as to bring your thighs into a more natural 'hang', takes stress off your knees and ankles,(and hip joints in some people's case) and gives the rider better controle of his riding seat and his balance.

Personally I believe in building up those thighs and using them for controle rather than sitting on my seat bones. But we wont get into that here.

I guess that's the short version. I bet too if you know your stirrup length on the wide seat, you'll notice it get a bit longer with the narrower seat.

Anyway, you will notice that when you get your legs closer to the horse you'll ride better and with more control and comfort. I'm done.GH

P.S. I think there are threads about carving out ground seats as well as other aspects of saddle building for the first timer. gh

[Echo4V]

Hide mechanic,

Thanks for the advice. I have had several issues with leg and joint pain while riding but I attributed it mostly to arthritis and past injuries. I have been riding an old plantation saddle that I traded a colt for ( cause the saddle don't eat and the colt was the result of a neighbor's stud getting loose) and I have noticed that I need longer stirrups and that I have less joint pain riding it. I have even entertained the idea of building a buena vista as my next saddle. I noticed that Steele sales this tree, but I don't know what the get for them, so it won't be any harder to get that tree than a wade tree. I'm glad you mentioned narrowing the seat because now that I think about that and look at the saddle it does have quite a bit narrower tree than most western saddles. I did also see a thread about re working a ground seat but I haven't seen the conclusion to that thread yet, so I'm anxiously waiting for that. Once again, thanks for the advice.

David