Vegetable Tanned Leather Wavyness?

[rpfkov]

Hello,

I am new to leatherwork. I am working on a small project for which I purchased a 2-3 oz vegetable tanned side. I am making what is basically a large wallet with two extra flaps that act as pockets.

I cut out a small piece for the first pocket to experiment with and have suntanned it, used pure neatsfoot oil to darken it further and then applied Tandy conditioner. It is feeling quite supple, but I am having a problem with it. When I cut the piece, it was not perfectly flat. It had a bit of slight wavyness so would not lay exactly flat. I assumed that when I had finished with the sun, oil and conditioner it would behave. I put it under a stack of books and when I took it out it appeared flat, but the next day is was slightly wavy again. Not as much, but it was still there.

Help?

[Tommy217xxx]

I'm also very new but I would maybe try a wet the leather then rub it with your hands.

[rpfkov]

Thanks, I tried that. It worked while it was wet but then it came back once it was completely dry.

[Tree Reaper]

Belly leather will do that, what part of the side did you take it from?

[rpfkov]

Hi,

I did take it fromt he belly as I was experimenting with sun and oil etc. and I did not want to use the premium part of the side for that. Is there any way to save the piece or will it keep it's shape no matter what?

Thanks

Edited March 29, 2014 by rpfkov

[Tree Reaper]

If you can glue a backing like suede to it then it will lay flat but if you flex it then the surface of the leather will likely wrinkle although it will remain attached to the backing, it will be surface wrinkles that you see.

If you want premium results always use premium leather, some places will cut the belly off if you request it.

If they don't cut it off then you pay for it.

[rpfkov]

Hi,

Thanks for taking the time to answer. I have the nice bend area for my actual project, I just took this piece from the belly for experimenting with the sun and oil etc. I just hate to waste anything so I was wondering if I was missing anything in getting it to "behave". I'm sure I won't have the same problem with the bend area.

Thanks

[Tree Reaper]

You're welcome, some people won't take two seconds to even say thank you.

[rpfkov]

I hope you won't mind one more newbie question. I am making something similar to the notebook cover in the second photo. I need to cut two pieces from the bend area that will be stitched back to back and have to fold over. May I ask, which direction in the hide is it better to cut the pieces if they are going to fold? Perpendicular to where the spine of the cow would be, or parallel?

Edited March 29, 2014 by rpfkov

[Tree Reaper]

I always try and go with the natural curve of the hide on the animal.

[Chief31794]

I cut most of my goods more or less Paral

I hope you won't mind one more newbie question. I am making something similar to the notebook cover in the second photo. I need to cut two pieces from the bend area that will be stitched back to back and have to fold over. May I ask, which direction in the hide is it better to cut the pieces if they are going to fold? Perpendicular to where the spine of the cow would be, or parallel?

I normally cut my goods more or less parallel.

Chief

[rpfkov]

Hmmm... two different answers . Thank you both for your suggestions, I think I'll go with the natural curve of the animal.

Edited March 29, 2014 by rpfkov

[Tree Reaper]

Chief is a very experienced craftsman.

I'd be curious to know the reason behind your option Chief.

[rpfkov]

Yes please Chief, would you please share your reasoning? This side was a big financial outlay for me and I don't want to make a mistake.

Thanks!

[oltoot]

Your drawing is probably way off scale. The real goal would be to learn by look and feel where you can put your piece to achieve your goal. Hide character transitions in both directions. A small piece is more likely to find its 'home' parallel. It might be helpful to picture the animal that the hide once covered and see how the live requirements were different in different areas. Your requirement for smooth folding would normally be met by staying parallel but dropping down into the upper belly. I myself don't want the bellies cut off most leather I use because my choice of suitable for different uses is limited. Watching the videos of the tanning process available on line (Hermann Oak, Chahin, etc) might be helpful in understanding the 'behavior' that first brought you to this forum. Large, wet, hides, irregularly shaped in all directions, are forced flat through rollers and blades. In drying they are just trying to regain some of their original shape. And you see why necks often still show some signs of wrinkles as well as armpits, etc. Anyway, I work with plywood, too and it is perfectly uniform and DEAD. I prefer living materials.

[rpfkov]

Hello oltoot,

Thank you for your helpful comments. Yes, indeed my artwork was not to scale. Below is my actual side with one of my pattern pieces in scale. I need to cut two of such pieces and place them back to back as well as two small pockets on the inside. It needs to fold in half along the long edge, giving me a journal cover that is 9.5" tall by 8" across when closed.

The pattern piece in the photo is just placed for scale. I have the entire side so any suggestions for optimal placement would be very much appreciated.

[JoeSnuffie]

When I cut, I try to cut parallel with the back. But the reason i do it may differ from someone else's reason. I have found that the texture, flexibility, strength and sometimes the thickness changes as you move from the back to the belly. This is especially noticeable when cutting belts and bracelet blanks. I guess as the split or skive the hide, the stretchier belly ends up not as nice. On many hides I also notice that the closer you get to the belly, the more worn or discolored it gets, probably due to the cow laying on it more and scraping it more.

[Chief31794]

Chief is a very experienced craftsman.

I'd be curious to know the reason behind your option Chief.

Yes please Chief, would you please share your reasoning? This side was a big financial outlay for me and I don't want to make a mistake.

Thanks!

Both,

I'm actually not sure why, which is unusual, I normally do things for a reason. It just always seemed "natural" to me that the long side of the project should be laid out parallel. Sorry for this answer, but I just don't know why, just always have. If you think about it, a rectangle cut from a side is going to have two sides parallel and two sides perpendicular. It always seemed to me that items folded better along the parallel side, when I cut holsters (wrap arounds or western), I cut them so that it folds on parallel direction of the side. Shoulders the same way except that the shoulder is bent over the body so I lay out parallel with the long side. Belts are always cut along the parallel becuase you have to get the length. I don't think it makes a lot of difference, leather is a wonderfully adaptable medium to work in and once it's folded, glued and sewn it won't make too much difference.

Chief

[rpfkov]

I have a couple of other questions if that's OK. Can anyone recommend how to prepare the pieces before I attempt to dye them? I have read that it is good to roll the pieces in damp towels and leave them over night for example. Should the pieces be damp before dyeing? Should I apply oil after dyeing or is a conditioner enough?

If I leave the leather un-dyed and apply conditioner, will the leather still pick up the oils from my hands and age naturally?

Thanks!

[Tree Reaper]

Will you be carving or stamping this leather?

[rpfkov]

Will you be carving or stamping this leather?

No, I will be just stitching it together as a journal cover. I may dye it or leave it natural, that is the part I have not decided on.

What I am concerned about most is that the leather will be supple enough to fold well into the journal shape yet have enough stiffness to hold it's shape. I don't want to have any wavyness or buckling after the pieces are sewn together. And if I do dye it, that I have prepared it for both the sewing and the dyeing the best way possible.

Thanks

Edited March 30, 2014 by rpfkov

[Tree Reaper]

You don't wet it then.

A light coat of denatured alcohol will clean it then you will be bending it so I would apply one or two light coats of neatsfoot oil to help that.

Then dye or what ever other finish you want.

You may want to use a sealer to protect it.

The only time you would use water is prior to bending the leather or folding it.

Wet the joint where the leather bends, let it sit for a few minutes then bend the halves together and hold them in that position until it dries.

[rpfkov]

Thank you for the suggestions. Should I oil the back as well as the front?

If I apply a sealer, will the leather (if I don't dye it), still darken and pick up the oils from being handled? I am hoping for it to get a nice patina (over time) like this wallet:

[Tree Reaper]

The sealer is used to protect it, aging will still darken it and the neatsfoot will darken it some.

The best thing to do is try your finish on some scrap to get the desired effect.

Let it dry well between coats, the neatsfoot should only be applied to the finished side and let it dry a day or two before adding anything else.

Someone else may offer other options but this is what I do.

[rpfkov]

Sorry for the continued questions, but I have one other issue. My leather was stored in a roll in the store and unpon unrolling, it does not lay completely flat. There is some curl, which I assume will go away with time, but also a bit of wavyness throughout the entire hide. Will that relax when my pieces are cut out or is there a trick to getting rid of that?

Thanks