Stain Dyed Calf Skin Card Wallet

[DavidL]

First official wallet I'm going to be selling online. Picture taken from my laptop.

[stevieboy7]

if you're stitching by hand you should probably get some proper sewing thread... I would avoid the low-end machine thread you're using, not very strong and tends to break.
if you've already splurged enough to get some vergez tools, I'm sure you can buy some nice french lin cable to match!

[DavidL]

if you're stitching by hand you should probably get some proper sewing thread... I would avoid the low-end machine thread you're using, not very strong and tends to break.

if you've already splurged enough to get some vergez tools, I'm sure you can buy some nice french lin cable to match!

The thread is french linen fil au chinois. May be hard to see from the picture but appreciate the response. I've underestimated how saturated etsy is with leather goods. Its best if i get all my social media, Facebook, twitter, ect together and put out 20 different products and heavily promote.

[stevieboy7]

The thread is french linen fil au chinois. May be hard to see from the picture but appreciate the response. I've underestimated how saturated etsy is with leather goods. Its best if i get all my social media, Facebook, twitter, ect together and put out 20 different products and heavily promote.

Sorry, It's very hard to tell by the posted pics, and the roll without the sticker on it looks really odd. haha

In terms of leather goods on etsy... you really have to put out some interesting product to stand out from the crowd. As many leatherworkers on here will tell you, this is definitely not something that you can gain a living from.. only really enought to pay for the habit if you're lucky enough.

First, your stitching looks nice.. but that cast off in the middle of the side looks really weird, and is essentially useless. As well, can't tell if/what you're doing to your edges...

Second, your pricing is wayyyy too low. If you're going to create any sort of brand identity, you will want to price correctly.

Pricing: (minimum)

cost of materials: ~5$ for your leather and thread (if not more...)

+ wage for time taken: maybe 1.5 hours @ 15$/hr = $22.5

Price it cost you to make: $27.5

MSRP = Price *2 = $55

This makes sense considering the other goods on etsy made by similar makers. You can't (and shouldn't) try to lower your prices to compete with sellers in China/India/wherever, their product is massproduced and low quality.

If you lower your price to that, you are saying that you have the same quality product as made in china.... As well, you are devaluing leatherworkers as a whole, saying that your time, effort, tools, and knowledge is worth nothing.

Now, you don't need to charge that much.. but it's a good mark for where to start with pricing to cover your costs + time.

Depending how happy you are with the particular product, you can charge less (if it's a prototype/ has problems) or more if very polished.

[DavidL]

Sorry, It's very hard to tell by the posted pics, and the roll without the sticker on it looks really odd. haha

In terms of leather goods on etsy... you really have to put out some interesting product to stand out from the crowd. As many leatherworkers on here will tell you, this is definitely not something that you can gain a living from.. only really enought to pay for the habit if you're lucky enough.

First, your stitching looks nice.. but that cast off in the middle of the side looks really weird, and is essentially useless. As well, can't tell if/what you're doing to your edges...

Second, your pricing is wayyyy too low. If you're going to create any sort of brand identity, you will want to price correctly.

Pricing: (minimum)

cost of materials: ~5$ for your leather and thread (if not more...)

+ wage for time taken: maybe 1.5 hours @ 15$/hr = $22.5

Price it cost you to make: $27.5

MSRP = Price *2 = $55

This makes sense considering the other goods on etsy made by similar makers. You can't (and shouldn't) try to lower your prices to compete with sellers in China/India/wherever, their product is massproduced and low quality.

If you lower your price to that, you are saying that you have the same quality product as made in china.... As well, you are devaluing leatherworkers as a whole, saying that your time, effort, tools, and knowledge is worth nothing.

Now, you don't need to charge that much.. but it's a good mark for where to start with pricing to cover your costs + time.

Depending how happy you are with the particular product, you can charge less (if it's a prototype/ has problems) or more if very polished.

I was really considering not posting this up online because it was a scrap wallet that I made. Wanted to test the waters and see what would work and how to use etsy. Changed my pictures and learned a lot from the listing. Appreciate the stitching comment, I wanted to get something that looked different but your right it looks off. Im considering different patterns/ designs of wallets, dying the edges and matching them with the thread colour ect.

I've made a plan of how I'm going to go about selling on etsy, but its not going to be easy or an overnight process.

- create social media accounts - Facebook, twitter, pinterest, ect. On those accounts I'm going to do daily updates on my process, finished products ect. Hopefully, find a way to get people onto those media streams maybe through youtube where I can create a video showing the process of making a card wallet and people who are interested will click on the link and follow. Other options are giving out a free wallet every month and people will sign up to get a chance to win a wallet. On youtube there is a reviewer who shows off wallets and he has 20k viewers per video that could be an option. Blogs seem to be the best chance to get people to see your product and they are always looking for new companies that they can right about and a media write up will help. Creating a website would help, but for know an etsy presence will be easier to attain.

I have to also create a big line up of items 20 plus so that it creates more buzz and opportunties for viewers to check out my shop. If you know of any more ways or alternatives that could help I would like to hear them. Btw are you hand and sew from etsy?

Edited April 13, 2014 by DavidL

[DavidL]

Awesome just got 9 views. I know, i know thats nothing but at least its progress. First day of etsy no views. I didn't put tags on my products and it was impossible to find my wallets from the search. Also leatherworker is a good promotion tool, because if i continually show good products(which I haven't) it will spark interest from within the forum and through google viewers who stumble on the forum. Lots of intricacies of google that you need to know, how to get etsy views (following people who have a big amount of favourites, re posting, keywords...) A lot to learn and i will try to get professional help. Check out Onnit.com. I tried to get in touch with the web designer, but unfortunately his fee will be insane, he did other websites like virgin mobiles.

[stevieboy7]

Yes, I am Hand and Sew.

I've been doing the selling deal for about 2 years. I don't know what your age or experiences are, but you can plan and plan all you want, but things (especially leatherwork) never really work out that way.
I've had 15000+ views on a promotional video, I've been featured in magazines, blogs, videos, websites... you name it. But all in all, I've only really been able to do about 500 sales (thats including some wholesale I've done on Massdrop)
That's less than one sale a day. And that's with a ton of views and traffic through all social media (instagram, facebook, twitter) as well as a lot of self promotion on Reddit.
Its fun to have a plan of attack... but like I said, don't expect anything crazy. Certainly don't invest a shitload of money into it.

This is a hobby... not a money-maker.

[cjmt]

Tell that to Hermes or in fact the substantial number of pros around here!

Charlie

[stevieboy7]

Tell that to Hermes or in fact the substantial number of pros around here!

Charlie

You can't really compare an established 175 year old corporation with a guy who's giddy about getting 9 views on an etsy listing (3 of which were me...)

Not trying to shoot anyone down, just trying to keep things realistic here.

Especially considering how much he must have spent on tools (who buys blanchard right off the bat?) he will have to sell a lot to just come even. He has nicer tools and supplies than I do.

[cjmt]

Fine, a hobby to him right now maybe. Everyone including Hermes started somewhere though and this forum has seen people go from beginner to very good pro (Peter nitz for eg) in double quick time. Whilst the chances are your right one should never say never...

[DavidL]

Yes, I am Hand and Sew.

I've been doing the selling deal for about 2 years. I don't know what your age or experiences are, but you can plan and plan all you want, but things (especially leatherwork) never really work out that way.

I've had 15000+ views on a promotional video, I've been featured in magazines, blogs, videos, websites... you name it. But all in all, I've only really been able to do about 500 sales (thats including some wholesale I've done on Massdrop)

That's less than one sale a day. And that's with a ton of views and traffic through all social media (instagram, facebook, twitter) as well as a lot of self promotion on Reddit.

Its fun to have a plan of attack... but like I said, don't expect anything crazy. Certainly don't invest a shitload of money into it.

This is a hobby... not a money-maker.

Many people on this site make minimum to above minimum wage from leather working (selling belts, custom orders of purses -hunio, selling tools bruce johnson, making knifes knipshield). JooJoobs on Etsy made 300k on leather goods and thats in one year! (their media outlets and planning is amazing). Of course some make pocket change with their items, but its has been done before and it can be repeated. Your items sell more if you price it lower. 100 for a bifold is more than the consumer is willing to pay especially if their are some italian wallets on etsy that are the same price. 100 for a home made bifold is an odd demographic seeing as young people don't normally have a ton of cash. If 5 people are willing to buy at 59 for a good quality iPhone case than its better than 1 person that may buy it 100. Im just starting out and my items i put out are average, but you should start using oil tanned leather and expand your items past veg tanned leather . The issue is repeat customers come back and they see that no new items are in shop and that nothing is selling. You might as well change your mindset and think of a plan to revamp your business because there is potential, but its hard work.

I don't know whether it will be popular or not but I might as well give it chance and a good one at that. I've learned from my mistakes and the most important one is - if you think you can't succeed then you won't. I would have done less and achieved less if I thought to my self that I could never do it, because normally I'm very bad at everything i start doing and through hard work and repetition, pounding down at my craft I am able to become better each day.

[DavidL]

I started out with tandy then to japanese tools and advanced to blanchard and dixons. Would have been cheaper if I would have went straight to blanchard. Also, it is the small milestones that make me happy. I aim high, but am happy with what I have. It was improvement where i got 0 views the first day because I didn't tag any of my photos. The items on my etsy are not what I'm going to put out in the future, those are just the better looking prototypes (i've made 10+). The ones I'm going to put up will look more professional and will be made by die cutter and then hand dyed and edges finished.

The most important is that I take this craft seriously. I don't say that I can't achieve anything because that already ruins the chance I do have. Leatherwork, sports, painting is an art form bigger than the person doing it themselves, there will always be improvement, always changes, always new ideas never will you reach the end. As long as you keep improving and doing what it takes whether it is train leather working with a hermes worker or a saddler then turn back with your skills and revamp your business. Its a thing where its all or nothing.

All this said it might mean nothing because the USD is going to crash very soon..

Edited April 13, 2014 by DavidL

[cjmt]

Personally I agree, you have to aim high, try hard and aim to succeed, you certainly won't I you don't. Two small notes of caution though. Be aware that Hunio and Peter nitz are very, very good. Aim to emulate them but realise it will take years and hard work/talent. Also, you'll never have a viable business if you aim to do it through hand making but being cheap, you can't do both, at least in my experience. You need a minimum of a half decent product at a half decent price, if you aim for the bottom foreign factories will just undercut you

Charlie

[DavidL]

In 5 years i believe i will be as good as hunio and peter nitz. Given that in that time frame I apprentice for a japanese leatherworker or french leather worker, like Peter Nitz did. The construction is what takes years of practice, and then the materials they use make it look incredible. I agree with you, there is a trend of wanting products made in north america for a slightly higher price tag. With the increase of online buyers it cost less for leather workers and craftsman to sell products that can be bought by people from across the world without a physical retail store.

You can't really compare an established 175 year old corporation with a guy who's giddy about getting 9 views on an etsy listing (3 of which were me...)

Not trying to shoot anyone down, just trying to keep things realistic here.
Especially considering how much he must have spent on tools (who buys blanchard right off the bat?) he will have to sell a lot to just come even. He has nicer tools and supplies than I do.

Nicer supplies and skill = better craftsmanship and more potential value in the eyes of the consumer from a better made product. Im not trying to clash head with you but I'm trying offer advice. You will see an increase in sales if you bump your price down to 70-80 for the bifold and 30-45 for the simple wallet. The price for a piece of leather to make a simple wallet is 4-5 dollars max, plus 1-2 for supplies. so the mark up is 25 - 35 for lets say 15-20 minutes of work for the simple wallet. The cutting out takes 2 minutes with a stencil, cutting the holes takes 4 minutes and the rest you can attribute to pricking holes and hand stitching plus a quick burnish. The customer also looks at other sellers and they sell items that look similar for 20 - 30 dollars less.

You are selling pass the equilibrium point where your price is too high and your quantity is too low.

Also there are not items sold that are blue, red, grey, distressed . ect. There are a bunch of different people you should try to attract to your company. When my shipment of leather gets here i will be making a few wallets of different colours and some standard black and brown wallets with contrasting threads, which will look neater than my prototype wallet and sell for more.

Edited April 13, 2014 by DavidL

[cjmt]

Brave words! Hard work will only get you so far, a certain amount of talent is needed as well! Best of luck, I'm a great believer in aiming high and trying hard

Charlie

[Matt T]

Your pricing is way too low. If it is just a practice piece and you don't feel comfortable selling it for what it should sell for based on materials and labor (2-5x, depending on your business model), then maybe you should give it to a friend as a gift to test out and give you feedback.

[Macca]

Agree on the pricing

If you are aiming for high end eventually, then stop selling your starting practice pieces like these

spend time developing your skills/technique/patterns etc then work on your marketing strategy

Then start selling

[Hi Im Joe]

I agree that a low pricing strategy will only force you to turn your business into an assembly line to make any money at all.

I do this because I love the process and the craft. Plus if you price something at 12 dollars and its handmade people will think it's cheap.

If you price something handmade at 100 dollars people will either think its way too expensive or want to figure out what is special about it.

Its those second people you have to convince.

[DavidL]

It was just a prototype that was slightly too nice to throw out. I should give it to a friend to test it out for feedback.

Pricing for this wallet will be mid 20. Stitches will be in 7 spi to save time, linen or tiger thread not fil au chinois to cut don't cost. Die cutters will be used and leather will be dyed and finished. Start to finish 10 minutes for a single piece.

$20- 30 will get a good number of sales once I become established as a proper etsy seller. Market audience for etsy look for handmade good at a store price, not boutique price so its a good number. A card wallet with more pockets will command a larger price tag.

Id imagine that selling from a website rather than etsy will be able to create a buffer between your competitors because there prices are low and everyone is roughly priced the same. On a website selling higher end goods - like vegetable tanned goat leather card holders and horween bifolds a higher price can be asked, but still in the same range as competitors. Am i right or wrong?

Last thought to throw out there - creating two brands? One for low end goods that are mass produced and another that are high end goods that have a lot of time and care put into them. Would you think having both low end and mass produced (still hand stitched) leather goods under the same brand could hurt the brand identity or has it been done right before? I still have to work hard to perfect my skills and am looking into apprenticeships so that my items will look professional and exact.

Any more critiques will help me out a bunch.

Edited April 15, 2014 by DavidL

[Macca]

Your marketing will determine the price in all honesty.

Cost+ pricing is really not a market you want to be in, someone will always undercut you.

There are quite a few makers who nailed social marketing & are selling very basic product for healthy margins

You are looking to sell into a very crowded market, either you create a buzz, you offer a unique product or you fight on price.

I would never suggest fighting on price.

[stevieboy7]

It was just a prototype that was slightly too nice to throw out. I should give it to a friend to test it out for feedback.

Pricing for this wallet will be mid 20. Stitches will be in 7 spi to save time, linen or tiger thread not fil au chinois to cut don't cost. Die cutters will be used and leather will be dyed and finished. Start to finish 10 minutes for a single piece.

$20- 30 will get a good number of sales once I become established as a proper etsy seller. Market audience for etsy look for handmade good at a store price, not boutique price so its a good number. A card wallet with more pockets will command a larger price tag.

What Macca said is enitrely true.

Plus, it still seems like you're just coming up with a number off the top of your head. You really need to put some thought into how long this product takes you.

Even if EVERYTHING was entirely pre-cut, I think it's impossible for you to make this product (dye, punch holes, stitch, finish edges) in 10 minutes. Seriously, just time yourself. It probably takes around 10 minutes to stitch....

You also just can't say "Oh, I'll get punches made for a 20$ product, that will save time!"

Punches cost money... like a decent amount of money (at least 100$ plus for a super simple die. Ontop of that, you need to buy some sort of press (hydraulic, or hand, at $800-$2k for a decent one to save time) or pay someone to do it. And even so, it's going to still take you a decent amount of time to get the die lined up around leather marks, and punch, then reline-up etc. In the end, for the price you're thinking, you'd have to sell 5,000+ product to make a return on investment.

I wouldn't even start talking about multiple companies... you haven't even established one! Make some interesting products (your 2 current designs have been done to DEATH by other leatherworkers) and just work on getting better yourself. Sell stuff once you're actually happy with it.

The first 5 prototypes of any design you're going to make will be shit, theres no way around it. It takes time and effort to refine a design to the point where its ready for sale.

How to create a product:

Come up with 10 interesting designs,

Make a prototype of each, see what needs changing, make another prototype, change again... etc.etc. Until you've made at least 5 prototypes of each design.

Study the EXACT breakdown of the final prototypes you've made. Leather (including shipping to you, time, how easy it is to get again), hardware (any metal) thread, and manufacturing (from when you unroll the leather, to when you have a product that is ready to package (EVERYTHING inbetween is time).

Look at which products make sense for at LEAST 2x cost resale. If you want to actually make money ontop of covering costs, charge 2.5-3x and if you want to sell in stores that are not your own, MSRP should equal at least 4x cost.

At this point, you set up a store, and properly get to marketing/social media.

Now look at this list, you've skipped EVERY step, and just went from idea->sales without any calculations or thought inbetween.

If you're actually serious about this, you really should take the right approach.

You can't just say "oh I'll make a bifold, that will sell well!", go actually make a bifold, they're not easy to get nice. and take A LOT of time and effort.

As well, finding leatherworking apprenticeship is VERY hard to do. I think that every person who has done an apprenticeship (where the master pays you) has done some sort of formal schooling or degree in leatherwork (fairly popular thing in Europe) in North America, leatherworking schools don't really exist. (or, as with europe, are very expensive)

[DavidL]

What Macca said is enitrely true.

Plus, it still seems like you're just coming up with a number off the top of your head. You really need to put some thought into how long this product takes you.

Even if EVERYTHING was entirely pre-cut, I think it's impossible for you to make this product (dye, punch holes, stitch, finish edges) in 10 minutes. Seriously, just time yourself. It probably takes around 10 minutes to stitch....

You also just can't say "Oh, I'll get punches made for a 20$ product, that will save time!"

Punches cost money... like a decent amount of money (at least 100$ plus for a super simple die. Ontop of that, you need to buy some sort of press (hydraulic, or hand, at $800-$2k for a decent one to save time) or pay someone to do it. And even so, it's going to still take you a decent amount of time to get the die lined up around leather marks, and punch, then reline-up etc. In the end, for the price you're thinking, you'd have to sell 5,000+ product to make a return on investment.

I wouldn't even start talking about multiple companies... you haven't even established one! Make some interesting products (your 2 current designs have been done to DEATH by other leatherworkers) and just work on getting better yourself. Sell stuff once you're actually happy with it.

The first 5 prototypes of any design you're going to make will be shit, theres no way around it. It takes time and effort to refine a design to the point where its ready for sale.

How to create a product:

Come up with 10 interesting designs,

Make a prototype of each, see what needs changing, make another prototype, change again... etc.etc. Until you've made at least 5 prototypes of each design.

Study the EXACT breakdown of the final prototypes you've made. Leather (including shipping to you, time, how easy it is to get again), hardware (any metal) thread, and manufacturing (from when you unroll the leather, to when you have a product that is ready to package (EVERYTHING inbetween is time).

Look at which products make sense for at LEAST 2x cost resale. If you want to actually make money ontop of covering costs, charge 2.5-3x and if you want to sell in stores that are not your own, MSRP should equal at least 4x cost.

At this point, you set up a store, and properly get to marketing/social media.

Now look at this list, you've skipped EVERY step, and just went from idea->sales without any calculations or thought inbetween.

If you're actually serious about this, you really should take the right approach.

You can't just say "oh I'll make a bifold, that will sell well!", go actually make a bifold, they're not easy to get nice. and take A LOT of time and effort.

As well, finding leatherworking apprenticeship is VERY hard to do. I think that every person who has done an apprenticeship (where the master pays you) has done some sort of formal schooling or degree in leatherwork (fairly popular thing in Europe) in North America, leatherworking schools don't really exist. (or, as with europe, are very expensive)

The punches were 200 bucks and I'm planning to use a punching hammer(25) to punch out the patterns. 5000 products multiplied by 19(25selling-6 overhead/fixed) = 95 grand. If i can make that in 2 years il be a happy man. I plan to utilize some online marketing. My brother has a web design company and knows the ins and outs of online marketing and can get me started on a website and marketing my product.

I don't believe I missed much in the list (I just didn't elaborate on it) I made 10+ prototypes and came up with those two as the design. The front pocket of the black wallet can be used to make a different card holder, using two overlapped and two larger pieces together to make a 3 pocket card holder. It can also be interchanged to make a foldable card holder with 2 pockets or an iPhone wallet, granted that I design them.

Many bifolds out there which are handmade have a bit of hand stitching or none at all, that could be a possibility when I design, or a fully stitched wallet. I agree they are used a lot but simplicity is what people look for now a days, but I will come up with some more designs that would work. (i've seen some pretty creative ones)

Most important thing about selling your product is to create a plan before you sell the product. If you go from making a product to then planning it will be a losing plan. So before I make more products I will need to first go apprenticeship if i can find one or go contact the people personally and go for 2-4 weeks and intensively train, preferably with at least two workers who had several decades of experience. Next I will consult with my father and brother, whom both are familiar with marketing as to things i should tweak and which avenues I should take.

As to how long it takes I haven't timed it but I have a good sense of timing. 10 minutes is too quick, unless it is pre dyed and unfinished edges. I would say under 20 minutes if the leather was dyed the day before for a card wallet with 4 inches of stitching at 7 spi. Starting after the leather is cut and dyed from the day before. buffing and adding a finish 3 minutes. Buff out finish and dye edges 3 minutes. Use a scratch compass to mark out stitches and prick the holes - 5 minutes. Saddle stitch 4 inches of leather at 7 spi 5-8 minutes. Optional - finish the edge 5 minutes. 24 minutes for the longest time it would take and 16 minutes for the shortest time. To keep up this pace for 20 a day will be difficult.

Appreciate the comment! helped me hone in on a few areas that needed some touch up. Would need to factor in all costs of the supplies and get an exact number.

After I perfect my technique I will write up a business plan and have my father critique it and il share it with this community, seeing as it has help me so much and it can be beneficial to me and to people reading.

[Macca]

Cant think of many things worse than having to make the same thing again & again, you will get sick of it very quickly.

Seriously, drop the mass volume idea, for handmade its just dumb.

Point of handmade is something unique, something the volume guys can't do.

The market is saturated with low cost wallets/card holders, I don't get why you think there is room for you there ?

[DavidL]

id rather start there and build a reputation, even if i break even people will be following my brand. It would be hard starting from no reputation, no reviews, no media press to selling card wallets for 70 dollars. It could be done though. Mostly it is so i can pay off for my debt and make a bit of money to feel out the market.

I also currently do not have the skill to makes something of high value yet. I have ocd and won't find it boring (kinda a gift?), most people who do good in fields like this has remarkable genetics and are hardworking. When I used to play basketball on a team everyone would leave the court for 20 minute break and i would be trying out new moves and perfecting a part of my game where I fall short - i don't think I can even take a break unless i passed out from exhaustion or if it was a pick up game and I wanted to take it easy.

Over the next week I'm writing up a page analysis each of the competitors business models and their marketing outreach. Find out from there where i can fit in.

low cost/ high production, if you can find your place has tremendously high profits. Im still unsure because what you are saying is true the mass volume is hard, but at slightly higher price than made in china and with better quality leather and making process it is more appealing to consumers - you would have to market it well to get this point across. Im going to do a 20 page write up and then I will have more accurate numbers (had to do this in marketing class and it was a pain in the ass- now i see its worth)

Thanks for the help macca, stevieboy7, and everyone that wrote in any more feedback would help out - Came in here with a plan that was flawed and realize now that I needed to put it down on paper and plan out every last detail and organize it better.

Feedback on the mass marketing vs high end production will help. I also will post a question on the marketing section of this forum and on a different forum.

[cjmt]

There's some good advice in this thread. Specifically you can't compete with China, you'll never succeed if you try to do that, particularly hand stitching. Anyone can import a container load for a tenth of what you can make them for and if your just going to bash things out as fast as you can there isn't going to much difference between your work am mass produced stuff

To go high end you need to spend time on what you make, the details count. For eg I budget a minimum of half an hour just for the edges of a watch strap and 45 mins isn't unusual...