ryan Report post Posted January 14, 2008 Here's my two cents; your probably aren't going to find a machine that'll do 3 oz to 20 oz. Everyones going to tell you theirs can though! I have an Adler 205 and love it. Yeah they're $5500 and yeah my monthly payment gobbles up most of my profits (at least for the next 24 months LOL). My opinion is if you're serious about leather work, buy a good machine and save yourself the heartache. It's tempting to pay less but you get what you pay for. I am not bad mouthing any of the machines you're interested in as I haven't run any of them. I will say this, if you buy an Adler from Vernon at Weaver; you won't look back. You'll have another couple hundred into accessories but you'll have a machine that will out live you. As for the deerskin; I hate to tell ya but you're better off having two machines. You don't want to have to keep switching tensions and stuff all the time and you don't want all the wear and tear sewing little things on a heavy duty machine. The good news is you can get into a Singer 111w like mine for under $500 and they sew great. Yeah I know this puts you at about three times what you want to spend but it's all about how serious you are. If you are interested, I could put you in touch with a guy in SD who rebuilds machines and usually has some good needle and awl machines for sale and usually some flatbeds. Ryan Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
esantoro Report post Posted January 15, 2008 Twern't me, but the major factors in needle deflection would be the material and needle system. The Juki that the F. 2000 and A. 4000 is based on uses a smaller needle system. The 794 is 25% thicker and both companies rework the needle bars. Glad to hear your guide works out. Bill Bill, Do you know what of the needle bar is reworked? Would it be only length? Ah, you were saying that both ferdco and artisan had reworked the original Juki needle bar, which wold be needed for a different needle system. ed Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bcurrier Report post Posted January 15, 2008 Bill,Do you know what of the needle bar is reworked? Would it be only length? Ah, you were saying that both ferdco and artisan had reworked the original Juki needle bar, which wold be needed for a different needle system. It's actually pretty hard to nail down the details. Companies like Artisan and Ferdco don't want to give out too much information to competitors (though they can reverse engineer the differences for themselves anyway). I've seen Juki 441 specs that differ on the details also - including some that specify the 794 as well as other different needle systems. There's actually nothing very suprising about that. Most suppliers can supply almost any head type with almost any needle system, within design reason, of course. Bill Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
realmontanan Report post Posted January 20, 2008 I've been ( because I'm a snot nosed beginner) having a bit of a hard time choosing between the Artisan 1797 AB LTHR, and the Artisan 3000........ No saddles but lots of other things and it seems as though neither machine fits right in the ol' zone............ any comments? Most appreieated, Colin Paterson Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Art Report post Posted January 20, 2008 Hi Colin, In between is the 618 SC-1 which I also have. The 797 is a lot faster and lighter machine than the 618 or the 3000. How about telling us what you want to sew so we can recommend what to look at. First thing you need to think about is if you sew anything that will be a real PIA on a flat bed. Art I've been ( because I'm a snot nosed beginner) having a bit of a hard time choosing between the Artisan 1797 AB LTHR, and the Artisan 3000........ No saddles but lots of other things and it seems as though neither machine fits right in the ol' zone............ any comments?Most appreieated, Colin Paterson Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
realmontanan Report post Posted January 20, 2008 Hello Art, Well, I just don't know which way I'm going to be going..... other than to say I won't be makin' saddles. Does the table come off the 797? My wife sews alot and she look at the two fliers that the ARTISAN guys sent me and wondered that. At most, I would make some leather pants and vests. Maybe even try my hand at a leather shirt or two...........I just don't know and I don't want to be left wishing I would have done somethin' different. How about needle sizes ( another wife question ) is that significant? Wish I could tell you more.... I'll be making saddlebags and other tack for sure...holsters, knife sheaths, belts all that stuff for sure.... but then it's blue sky and I don't want to have to make do.... or be left wishin' Probably just answered my own question! Colin Paterson aka realmontanan Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BillB Report post Posted January 21, 2008 Russ, I just went through the same decision process. I finally went with the Artisan 3000 with the stand and the added table. When I measured the thickness of the things I worked on I was just inside the limits of the next size down. Having bought power tools that were "just enough" for todays job, then getting into a bigger job latter on and needed an upgrade, I decided to go up a level. It might be over kill right now, but I would rather have the margin than be constantly pushing a machine to its limits. I am also looking at the wear factor. The other factor was that I had the funds on hand to go either way. Good luck with your decision. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
realmontanan Report post Posted January 21, 2008 [quote Good luck with your decision. Thanks a lot Bill I think I just needed that little nudge ya know? I would probably be real happy with either but just think one day when that big ol' heavy sewing job shows up and I just breeze right through it like it wasn't even there! Colin Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Art Report post Posted January 21, 2008 Hi Colin, If you are going to be doing a LOT of clothing using garment material, the 797 is just the trick, lederhosen the 797 can do and so can the 618, and the 3000. If you are doing holsters, the 797 won't do, the 618 can do small ones, but because of welt sizes and sewing next to pockets and bulges a cylinder arm is really necessary and the 3000 is the ticket. The 3000 will not sew garment leather well after sewing a holster welt without a few adjustments, but if you do a lot of 2-4oz stuff you can pick-up a Singer 15 or even a 31 cheap that you can leave set-up to do that. Even a Singer 66 or 201 can do that work, but not on a production everyday basis (motors won't handle it, the machines are plenty strong). A 3000 is a good first stitching machine, most anything you can get under the presser foot can be sewn, and the servo motors are easy to operate. The big machines are easy to work on and somewhat forgiving on adjustments, another plus for a first machine. Artisan is a good company servicewise also, and when there is a real problem with a machine, they step up. The Leather Sewing Machine Forum on Leatherworker.net is also a good resource, we have members who have everything from older needle and awl machines and threaded needle Singers to newer Artisan and Ferdco machines, and they are all just a mouse click away. Art Hello Art,Well, I just don't know which way I'm going to be going..... other than to say I won't be makin' saddles. Does the table come off the 797? My wife sews alot and she look at the two fliers that the ARTISAN guys sent me and wondered that. At most, I would make some leather pants and vests. Maybe even try my hand at a leather shirt or two...........I just don't know and I don't want to be left wishing I would have done somethin' different. How about needle sizes ( another wife question ) is that significant? Wish I could tell you more.... I'll be making saddlebags and other tack for sure...holsters, knife sheaths, belts all that stuff for sure.... but then it's blue sky and I don't want to have to make do.... or be left wishin' Probably just answered my own question! Colin Paterson aka realmontanan Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tbird911 Report post Posted February 13, 2008 Hey Guys, New guy chiming in with a couple of questions. I just started working with leather (got my basic set from Tandy ) a couple of weeks ago. I want to learn how to make holsters and belts . . . but I love the wallets in this post. Is there a quality sewing machine that would let me do wallets and up to 9-10oz leather for holsters that won't put me in the poor house? Ant suggestions on used or secondhand machines? Are there any places that have pattern or "how to build" info on wallets similar to the ones in here? Thanks in advance. Tbird911 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Art Report post Posted February 13, 2008 Hi Bird, If it is your first machine then I hardily recommend a new one with the service that comes along with it. The Artisan 618 sc-1 lthr would be a good machine in a flat bed: http://www.artisansew.com/shop/item.aspx?itemid=173 If you want a cylinder then the 3000 is the ticket: http://www.artisansew.com/shop/item.aspx?itemid=166 Or they do make a cylinder arm version of the 618: http://www.artisansew.com/shop/item.aspx?itemid=182 If you can't go the bucks for a new one then on the used market a Singer 111 or a Singer 31 are good machines as are the Pfaff 545 or Pfaff 1245. These machines also came in twin needle versions and if they have a split needle bar then they will work. The Pfaff 142 is only good for light work, it will only take size 100/16 needles and 46 or 69 thread. The Pfaffs will be more expensive and parts are made of unobtanium, but they seldom break. Only buy from a reputable seller and go and see the machine to select it, take sample leather to sew it off. The dealer should be able to set the machine up to sew what you want with thread and needles to match. You will be able to find the most accessories for the Singer 111 as they still use that foot style on newer machines. Remember, with a used machine, you will most likely have to service it yourself. Good Luck, Art Hey Guys,New guy chiming in with a couple of questions. I just started working with leather (got my basic set from Tandy ) a couple of weeks ago. I want to learn how to make holsters and belts . . . but I love the wallets in this post. Is there a quality sewing machine that would let me do wallets and up to 9-10oz leather for holsters that won't put me in the poor house? Ant suggestions on used or secondhand machines? Are there any places that have pattern or "how to build" info on wallets similar to the ones in here? Thanks in advance. Tbird911 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Katy Report post Posted October 28, 2009 Hi everyone, I'm Katy and am new here. I saw this post thought I'd respond. I just took the plunge and am getting a new Artisan 3200. My workshop is so crowded with big machines with big tables. I figured this machine could take the place of all of them......maybe not after reading this forum??? Here is what I am using now. American straight stitch needle an awl, Singer 29-4 treadle, Singer flat bed 241, treadle and a Singer 3245 walking foot, zig zag carpet sewing machine with huge table and clutch motor. I do lots of repairs on all kinds of material from thick leather, biothane, semi straps (webbing) tarps. Couldn't get one of these machines to fix a nylon halter doubled. I don't dare use anything in my American but leather. I was told when I bought it that anything else would tangle it up and break the needle or awl. I sew up chaps, chinks, and trim stitch on some of my tooled spur straps I'm not new to sewing or repair but am only self taught and can use some help and great advise like I've seen in the posts here especially the leather part. Any way now I don't know if I should sell my other machines. I sure need the room that's for sure. Figures I get confused after the fact. Cheers, Katy out in the bononies NE Iowa Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cobra Steve Report post Posted October 28, 2009 Hi everyone, I'm Katy and am new here. I saw this post thought I'd respond. I just took the plunge and am getting a new Artisan 3200. My workshop is so crowded with big machines with big tables. I figured this machine could take the place of all of them......maybe not after reading this forum??? Here is what I am using now. American straight stitch needle an awl, Singer 29-4 treadle, Singer flat bed 241, treadle and a Singer 3245 walking foot, zig zag carpet sewing machine with huge table and clutch motor. I do lots of repairs on all kinds of material from thick leather, biothane, semi straps (webbing) tarps. Couldn't get one of these machines to fix a nylon halter doubled. I don't dare use anything in my American but leather. I was told when I bought it that anything else would tangle it up and break the needle or awl. I sew up chaps, chinks, and trim stitch on some of my tooled spur straps I'm not new to sewing or repair but am only self taught and can use some help and great advise like I've seen in the posts here especially the leather part. Any way now I don't know if I should sell my other machines. I sure need the room that's for sure. Figures I get confused after the fact. Cheers, Katy out in the bononies NE Iowa Hello, alot has changed since the post on Feb. 2008. I suggest that whoever is interested in a sewing machine, do your due diligence and get as much info as you can. There are many reputable companies that can answer your questions and give you the service that you deserve. Steve Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
