Saddle Stitch Question

[mrtreat32]

Just received my leather tools in the mail this week and have started practicing my stitching before I attempt any actual projects.

I have pretty much just been making lines of stitching to get my technique down.

I have read a ton on here as well as watching video tutorials online. Im basically trying to get Al stohlmans technique down directly from him book... I figured even though holding the awl and 2 needles at the same time seems trickier than some other methods it would be best to start out this way and suck it up before I develop any bad habits.

Results havent been horrible considering Im just starting out but I tried a few times stabbing multiple holes at once rather than just one at a time recommended by "art of hand sewing" and it seems much easier to get the angle more consistent if Im not stithcing after every hole. Does anyone on here prefer stabbing multiple holes at once? If not how do u get the same angle every time without taking a close look at the blade angle before every stitch?

Any tips would be appreciated. Would making a small line on the awl with a sharpie or something else maybe help with seeing the consistent angle to stab?

thanks

[AndersenLeather]

Read my reply in this thread. It should answer your questions.

http://leatherworker.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=49470

[mrtreat32]

Read my reply in this thread. It should answer your questions.

http://leatherworker.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=49470

thanks a lot of helpful info.

Wondering if there is something not as permanent as marker that I could use. Reason being is my awl blade attaches to the handle by a collet nut so depending on starting position a 45 degree angle will vary each time I put it on.

That thread brought up a lot of good points and I think I can get better results in a shorter amount of time by stabbing multiple holes at one time but no one really seemed to mention why it is best to do it one at a time. If there is a good reason Im willing to practice it that way so I dont get too comfortable doing it the wrong way.

[DavidL]

I scratched a line into the metal end of my handle. After some practice you don't need to look at the line to get an angle. I have talked to you before about a question of beginner tools to start out with and recommended a pricking iron. If you went through with getting a pricking iron you sometimes don't have to use a awl on thinner leather, as the iron goes through all the way to the backside.

If you do all the stabbing at the same time its easier to focus on one task than to stab a hole, stitch then repeat. It is not impossible to stab holes while stitching, but i find prepunching holes with only the pricking iron gives better results - you may have to use an awl if the leather is multi layered or 6 plus ounces.

Other than that it comes down to practice on-

Tension of pulling

Consistency of awl stabbing

Same technique on every stitch

Physically-

Thread/spi/awl size ratio

[mrtreat32]

I scratched a line into the metal end of my handle. After some practice you don't need to look at the line to get an angle. I have talked to you before about a question of beginner tools to start out with and recommended a pricking iron. If you went through with getting a pricking iron you sometimes don't have to use a awl on thinner leather, as the iron goes through all the way to the backside.

If you do all the stabbing at the same time its easier to focus on one task than to stab a hole, stitch then repeat. It is not impossible to stab holes while stitching, but i find prepunching holes with only the pricking iron gives better results - you may have to use an awl if the leather is multi layered or 6 plus ounces.

Other than that it comes down to practice on-

Tension of pulling

Consistency of awl stabbing

Same technique on every stitch

Physically-

Thread/spi/awl size ratio

I remember from the other thread speaking with you.

I ordered a ton of stuff but decided to hold off on the Vergez pricking irons and in the meantime picked up some other stuff to start out with. Decided to get the clam also which I didnt plan on buying originally.

I got a #7overstitch wheel from bruce johnson and have been using that with a bob douglas awl blade. I figured it would be nice to start out this way and see how it would be done by hand without a pricking iron. Kinda like learning the basic skills and foundation before jumping ahead.

From my brief time with the tools I can see how the iron will eventually make everything a lot neater! My stitches have been coming out decent for just beginning but the irons seem like all the angles would be Exact. Maybe Im over simplyfiying it but I imagine it would be almost hard to mess up using a iron??

Right now as I mentioned Im having to look at the blade very closely before I punch each hole to make sure the angle is consistent which is very time consuming. The idea of marking the awl like you mentioned seems like it could help a bit with that in the meantime.

Im finding the clam I ordered to also be causing a bit of trouble since the angle is with the project facing down. It makes the back of the work not visible so its hard to see how the stitching looks without taking it out of the clamp. Im assuming this is something I will get better at with time.

I don't have any experience with stitching ponies so I wouldn't know how to compare it to the clam at the moment. But the vertical position of the pony seems like it would be a bit more intuitive.

thanks for the feedback on my original thread. I feel like I picked up some good equipment based on your recommendations

[Rayban]

I credit Al Stohlman with just about everything I know about working with leather, but that doesn't mean I followed all his instructions to a T.....I would stab about 6 holes, stitch them, stab 6 more, and so on...and yes, I would put the awl down while I stitched.

I found that when stabbing multiple holes it got me into a rhythm of sorts, and the holes were more uniform. MMV, but it worked for me.

Also, it's very important to be consistent when stitching, like right side needle first, then left side, under and through, pull tight, and so on. I found this also got me into a rhythm.

I now do most of my stitching by machine which is why I speak in past tense.....

Whatever you do...just don't drill your holes.....very uncivilized

[mrtreat32]

I credit Al Stohlman with just about everything I know about working with leather, but that doesn't mean I followed all his instructions to a T.....I would stab about 6 holes, stitch them, stab 6 more, and so on...and yes, I would put the awl down while I stitched.

I found that when stabbing multiple holes it got me into a rhythm of sorts, and the holes were more uniform. MMV, but it worked for me.

Also, it's very important to be consistent when stitching, like right side needle first, then left side, under and through, pull tight, and so on. I found this also got me into a rhythm.

I now do most of my stitching by machine which is why I speak in past tense.....

Whatever you do...just don't drill your holes.....very uncivilized

that sounds like some great advice . I tried it this way as you described while practicing and I got much better results.

The al stohlman book says that the leather will close up if they are done ahead but I didnt have this problem when I tried it out. But I also have been only using a single piece of leather to practice on probably 3oz thick total. Maybe this will change when I start working on actual projects.

What is the correct angle to switch to when coming to the end of a straight line and turning onto the next. Is it a matter of preference or is there some type of general rule of thumb. Say I was sewing towards myself as I have been practicing with holes facing this way ///////

[mrtreat32]

I scratched a line into the metal end of my handle. After some practice you don't need to look at the line to get an angle. I have talked to you before about a question of beginner tools to start out with and recommended a pricking iron. If you went through with getting a pricking iron you sometimes don't have to use a awl on thinner leather, as the iron goes through all the way to the backside.

If you do all the stabbing at the same time its easier to focus on one task than to stab a hole, stitch then repeat. It is not impossible to stab holes while stitching, but i find prepunching holes with only the pricking iron gives better results - you may have to use an awl if the leather is multi layered or 6 plus ounces.

Other than that it comes down to practice on-

Tension of pulling

Consistency of awl stabbing

Same technique on every stitch

Physically-

Thread/spi/awl size ratio

I think you mentioned in the past that you have the vergez scratch compass. Do you happen to have a picture of the type of line it makes on the leather? Is it just a scratch or there is a groove that you can lay the stitches into?

I ordered the versa groover from bob douglas but its on back order and Im thinking of picking up the compass from vergez as well.

[DavidL]

it makes just a scratch on the leather surface, it never cuts the surface. I never tried the osborne scratch compass, but the seems to be the same but 25 dollars cheaper. I did have to sharpen the vergez compass to get it properly sharp. How is the bob douglas awl, I passed on it because the shipping is 30 plus dollars to get it to canada because they are saying they can't ship sharp objects to Canada by USPS but people routinely ship knifes to Canada from USA by USPS(seems kinda fishy to me)

Couple things to try out

-Put the clam vertical in-between your legs

-Prepunch holes - the holes close up a bit but still workable - I use a cork board and lay the leather piece down and stab it 90 degrees and follow the angle.

I started out with overstitch as well and it works o.k but won't look as neat as with a pricking iron unless you have been stitching for years.

What is the correct angle to switch to when coming to the end of a straight line and turning onto the next. Is it a matter of preference or is there some type of general rule of thumb. Say I was sewing towards myself as I have been practicing with holes facing this way ///////

Regular way the holes should be //// and stitches go \\\\. Hermes stitches luggage cases the opposite (the holes go \\\) which makes the corners more aesthetically appealing because the two end stitches for a corner will touch. I normally use a diamond awl and rotate it in the hole to get it round - A round awl will work too.

Another thing is a lot of the time the stitching line will need a small stitch to fit the last stitch for the corner. You have to decided if you want the stitch at the end or in the middle. If you want it in the middle use the overstitch on the edges and make them meet in the middle. If you want to make the small stitch at the corner the last stitches have to be estimated.

For backstitch I wouldn't look at the backside to see if its neat. As i got better I would assume the backstitches are neat and not bother looking at it. I would consider stitching a long line while concentrate and then when you are done critique the line of stitching.

Practice on the fundamentals before messing with more complex things it will save you the headache.

Good luck

[mrtreat32]

it makes just a scratch on the leather surface, it never cuts the surface. I never tried the osborne scratch compass, but the seems to be the same but 25 dollars cheaper. I did have to sharpen the vergez compass to get it properly sharp. How is the bob douglas awl, I passed on it because the shipping is 30 plus dollars to get it to canada because they are saying they can't ship sharp objects to Canada by USPS but people routinely ship knifes to Canada from USA by USPS(seems kinda fishy to me)

Couple things to try out

-Put the clam vertical in-between your legs

-Prepunch holes - the holes close up a bit but still workable - I use a cork board and lay the leather piece down and stab it 90 degrees and follow the angle.

I started out with overstitch as well and it works o.k but won't look as neat as with a pricking iron unless you have been stitching for years.

Regular way the holes should be //// and stitches go \\\\. Hermes stitches luggage cases the opposite (the holes go \\\) which makes the corners more aesthetically appealing because the two end stitches for a corner will touch. I normally use a diamond awl and rotate it in the hole to get it round - A round awl will work too.

Another thing is a lot of the time the stitching line will need a small stitch to fit the last stitch for the corner. You have to decided if you want the stitch at the end or in the middle. If you want it in the middle use the overstitch on the edges and make them meet in the middle. If you want to make the small stitch at the corner the last stitches have to be estimated.

For backstitch I wouldn't look at the backside to see if its neat. As i got better I would assume the backstitches are neat and not bother looking at it. I would consider stitching a long line while concentrate and then when you are done critique the line of stitching.

Practice on the fundamentals before messing with more complex things it will save you the headache.

Good luck

-If I was going to spend that much I would probably bite the bullet and pay the extra $25 and get the vergez based just on how it looks alone. Looks heavy and beautifully designed even if they function pretty much the same...either that or get one much cheaper one. When you say it just scratches the leather do you literally mean I could take a scratch awl and ruler and get the same effect? If so I might go that route in the meantime. A stitching groover like the versa that I ordered normally isnt used on the same projects as a Vergez pricking iron. correct? Seems like groovers are used with larger stitches and a more rustic look? I could be totally off base just the idea I get from looking around on the net.

- Bob Douglas awl seems pretty great but I have nothing to compare it too so its hard to say. I ordered a Barry king awl handle to go with it that came with 2 size collet nuts. The one that the blade fits into works but the blade only goes about a half inch in leaving about 2 inches of blade exposed. Seems a bit long and feel like I could get better control of the angle if there was less blade exposed. I emailed Barry King this morning and gonna try to figure out how to make it work. (Very beautiful awl handle btw) Kinda wish I started off with a Tandy awl or something so I would know what good qualities to look for

-The clam is very long. I tried to put it more vertical but I need to sit in a very high chair to achieve that. When I do that its more comfortable and easier to see what Im doing. Gonna use a chair like that or cut a few inches off the bottom of the clam. When you pre punch the holes with a cork board you lay the piece of leather down on cork or you hold it in the clam with the cork behind it?

-Is it pretty standard to use a scratch awl to make a round hole in the corners? Or something you picked up overtime.

Definitely going to order a pricking iron (9spi) but feel using the awl is a nice place to start.

Thank you for all the feedback Im learning a ton just reading on here.

[DavidL]

-If I was going to spend that much I would probably bite the bullet and pay the extra $25 and get the vergez based just on how it looks alone. Looks heavy and beautifully designed even if they function pretty much the same...either that or get one much cheaper one. When you say it just scratches the leather do you literally mean I could take a scratch awl and ruler and get the same effect? If so I might go that route in the meantime. A stitching groover like the versa that I ordered normally isnt used on the same projects as a Vergez pricking iron. correct? Seems like groovers are used with larger stitches and a more rustic look? I could be totally off base just the idea I get from looking around on the net.

Im not certain how good the dixon is but the vergez compass is good but an average japanese compass can probably beat out vergez. Dixon or vintage tool will most likely be better as they are pre sharpened. Groovers can be used on the backside.

I use the cork board and lay it on the table. Both ways can work.

Most people use a round awl for corners or they use the regular diamond awl.

Tandy diamond awl is useless even as a scratch awl.

Search nigel armitage on youtube a lot of questions will be answered.