Drop Ring Vs Flat Plate Rigging

[brycew74]

Im wondering what everyones thoughts are for a drop ring vs a flat plate rigging on a ranch saddle any input is Appreciated, Bryce

Edited May 16, 2014 by brycew74

[oltoot]

I guess my exact thoughts on the drop ring would be dependant on position and ring type. If by DR you mean D rings hanging down way low in full or 7/8 then plate rig is to be much preferred. If you mean O rings low in about 3/4, 5/8 then it might become closer to a toss up. All that said, DR in any configuration would be harder to repair. Plate gives much more flexibility in position and other placement as well as stirrup hanging/movement. IMHO, a plate or skirt rig that utilizes D rings in place of the 5053 or JW is the best of all.

[JAM]

Hi, Oltoot,

I don't make many ranch saddles - my customers are largely arena and trail riders - and I do mostly 3/4 and 5/8 ring riggings, with just the occasional 7/8 double flat-plate if a customer requests it. Personally I prefer the single ring riggings - I find them easier to build, lighter weight, and less leather under the leg. But that's just my personal experience, and I haven't been building saddles for 30 years or building ranch saddles; there is a lot more I can learn about that venue.

So, I'm curious, why exactly have you found the ring riggings harder to repair or more interfering with stirrup leathers?

Julia

www.mhleather.com

[brycew74]

The rigging im thinking of doing would be either a 3/4 double rig with a dropped o ring rigging or the same position in a flat plate, seems line the ring rigging would let the stirrup leathers move more freely

[oltoot]

Again, depends. But, most O ring riggings are the first thing to go on the tree with everything else on top so hardest to replace/repair. Dropped Os require that rigging be under the leg and carry the friction and they have less to give than plate before structural integrity is threatened. Actually all rather pointless as, done right, neither should require replacement/repair within useful life. You are lucky if a customer base in your genere doesn't favor full double D ring riggings just because that's what everybody else has. And IMHO the reason that is is cause they're cheap and easy. Last one I made was in 1976.

[JAM]

You are lucky if a customer base in your genere doesn't favor full double D ring riggings just because that's what everybody else has. And IMHO the reason that is is cause they're cheap and easy. Last one I made was in 1976.

LOL - wow, yes! My customers tend to be familiar with 7/8 double inskirts because that's what's in their factory saddle. I really like inskirts, myself, although I hate doing re-lines on them <ggg>. But I spend a lot of time with my customers, planning, while they wait for my treemaker to get to their tree. I do a lot of educating - not pushing, just educating - in rigging placement and types, history, function, saddle and riding styles, all that stuff, which is almost always new information for them. They usually end up in a single O-ring rig . Down the road they have all been very happy with their choice. When I get the rare customer who knows exactly what they want and why, I'm happy to build that for them, but I also really enjoy getting to know my customers and having those "Ah-hah!" eye-opening email conversations with them.

When I make a spec saddle it's pretty much always a 3/4 single O-ring rigging. The 3/4 placement isn't as far out of most folks familiarity as a 5/8 or CF would be, and the single O-ring is pretty much perfect aesthetically and traditionally for the old-time 3B that is my specialty.

Brycrew, I've personally never had a problem with lack of swing in my stirrup leathers over a 3/4 O-ring rig (or a 5/8, for that matter). But I'm curious - why are you thinking about putting a back cinch on a 3/4 rig?

Julia

www.mhleather.com

[oltoot]

Are you taking my comments from another thread and combining them with these? There I was responding to different questions and basically said why not just make the saddle double rigged and leave the flank cinch and billets in the barn. Having visited your website I see you place great stock in single rigs. My experience has been that most saddles are going to see multiple uses, horses, even owners in a lifetime and most will eventually wish that a SR was double rigged. That has been my experience. I might add that I am of the school that says if you do not keep your flank cinch snug, take it off.

[JAM]

Gosh, I don't know if I combined comments - I don't remember. I tend to go off topic. I am of that same school - if you can't keep it snug, take it off. But if you take the back cinch off a full or 7/8 saddle (or leave it loose), you don't have much or any pull down on the back of the saddle, which is why I like the single rig.

[brycew74]

My reasoning on the 3/4 double rig is exactly as oltoot suggest even between my two personal horses their backs are pretty different not to mention any company horses or colts I may get in the future gotta build one or two saddles that are going to fit the majority of what I ride so I feel that the back cinch will be prudent to have around even if I don't use it every day it might be nice to have doctoring foot rot and pinkeye on big cows, bulls etc.

[Ruark]

I made saddles up in the Texas panhandle back in the 70s and 80s, mostly for working ranch cowboys and ropers. The only kind of rig they would even consider was a full double. Anything else would eventually tear out. In-skirt rigs were seen as mostly for show horses and pleasure or trail riding. But for hard ranch work, outside all day every day, the full double was the standard; the question wasn't even asked.

Ruark

[Big Sioux Saddlery]

I am curious how one gets a 3/4 rigged saddle to stay in place on today's horses? You can have a pretty good tree fit, but that saddle is going to creep ahead on most of the horses in my part of the country (Midwest) if it's got a 3/4 rig in it. I rode one when I was a kid. Loved the saddle, hated the rigging. I also personally like an inskirt, but agree that repair and relining is a pain in the butt. Put in correctly, it can be used on a saddle that will receive very hard use, and will stay put better than a standard dee ring rig. However, used long enough and hard enough, repair will be more expensive than any other type. I always thought the standard dee ring rig was the easiest to repair, not the most difficult. Personally, not a fan of flat plates at all. I think it was Verlane Desgrange that said "A flat plate is anything but flat." The first one I built for myself, I finally tore it out and put a regular dee in it.

[JAM]

I am curious how one gets a 3/4 rigged saddle to stay in place on today's horses?

I can't tell you why, but all my personal saddles are in 3/4 or 5/8 single, and I have no problem on any of my QHs. My customers all take 3/4 (the brave ones go for 5/8) and they have no problems with saddle creep (they have a variety of breeds). Maybe it's the trees - I only build with Rod Nikkel trees - or maybe horses' shapes haven't changed as much as everyone thinks. But it works for me and my customers. I know there are cowboys and operations in the west, Nevada and Oregon, who won't ride in anything but a CF rig. Perhaps they buy/breed their horses for that old ranch horse body type, and all their horses tend to be peas-in-a-pod for backs and body types, but CF works for them.

Now that I think about it, I can finish up riding and find my cinch has loosened to where it's barely snug, and the saddle hasn't moved/slipped/slid at all. So maybe it's the tree.

[Big Sioux Saddlery]

JAM do you use a wider cinch on these saddles? The old McClellans were basically centerfire, and the original horse hair cinches were very wide. I'm just picturing in my mind what a 3/4 rigged saddle looks like on a modern horse, with a long shoulder and withers set way back. The cinch ends up way back on their belly. If a horse has a bit of a pot belly, that cinch is going to slide forward. Granted, it may be loose then, and if the tree fits the horse well, the saddle won't turn, but if you cinch tight and put that cinch ahead where it wants to be, there is quite a forward angle to the latigos and cinch. That is what wants to pull the saddle ahead. Personally, I've never built a 3/4 rigged saddle, but I've had dozens of people bring older 3/4 rigged saddles in and tell me they just can't get it to stay put on a horse. On most of these, it's not the tree, it's the rigging. If it works for you, more power to you. Maybe I'll build one, get a real wide cinch, and see how I like it.

[JAM]

This is one of my saddles, with a 3/4 single rig and a mane hair cinch, probably 5" wide, on one of my horses (a QH).